Synergy Tech Support

Synergy Electric Helicopters => Synergy E5 => Topic started by: awesomeOne on February 04, 2016, 06:44:04 AM

Title: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 04, 2016, 06:44:04 AM
Hey guys, I have an E5 that input in the other week so I'm going to try a stretch since I need to replace the boom and boom supports. Looking for some advice on the bits it need, gearing, pinion etc.

What I have is a stick E5 with
Castle 120 ESC
Gryphon GSR-7075 20A BEC
MKS HBL 950 Cyclic
MKS HBL 880 Tail
CGY750 FBL

I have the following blades I won in a raffle and a motor which I'm hoping to use.

Cyclone 615 Main
Cyclone 95 (or 105?) Tail
Xnova 4030 2.5Y 560 SP

I'm thinking a 12s setup with the above.

What bits would I need to buy to make all that work with a stretch. Any advice or recommendations appreciated.


Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 04, 2016, 05:02:32 PM
That is a excellent set up. Motor and blades will work just fine. Matt has made stretching very easy, in the synergy store is a stretch kit. You want the 626 stretch kit. This will allow you to run blades from 610 to 626.

You can try the 95's but you may prefer the 105's less you increase the tail ratio. Depends on how hard you fly.


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Title: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 04, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
I just looked. In addition to the stretch kit you will need the boom support ends and tail control rod ends as those are epoxied on and not reusable from the stock kit. 

If you decide you want to increase the tail ratio, which I recommend for headspeeds under 2250, you will need the 12t spur and the 54t spur gears. I don't have part numbers in front of me but on the synergy store search spur gear they will come up.


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Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Cliff Chmiel on February 04, 2016, 07:48:05 PM
may want to get new bearing and Orings  for the boom, this way you just replace boom to go back to 550
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 05, 2016, 04:11:03 AM
Thanks guys.. a shopping I will go.. I was hoping I could use the   626 stuff wasn't sure. Do the standard e5 pinion will work?

Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 05, 2016, 04:51:27 AM
Can I clarify the tail blades. If I go with the 105s do I need to change the tail gearing? If so what am I looking for?

Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 05, 2016, 05:16:23 AM
If you run 106 tails you are probably ok. Just depends on your head speed and flight style. Personally I prefer the 96mm tails and upgrading the tail ratio to 4.5:1 by adding the 12t spur gear and the 54t auto rotation spur gear.


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Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 05, 2016, 06:54:20 AM
Thanks


Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 05, 2016, 07:00:39 AM
Can you explain what the flight characteristics might be like with the different tail and gearing choices. I don't really understand the differences and why I would choose one over the other .

Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 05, 2016, 03:21:26 PM
It all comes down to tail authority.  Through testing and experience, Matt has targeted 9500-10500 rpm on the tail rotors. Having variable tail ratios allows the user to fine tune the tail to keep the main rotor head speed in line with pilot needs and yet have enough power at the tail to handle even the most demanding loads.

The stock gear ratio on an E5 is assuming head speeds in the 2300-2500 range with 556 mains and 96mm tails.  With a 4.0:1 tail ratio, if the head is turning 2400, then the tail is turning 9600 rpm. 

If you stretch the model and turn the head at 2150, on the stock 4.0:1 ratio now the tail is only turning 8600 rpm which is below the ideal range.  Increasing tail blades to 106mm increases the amount of force the tail can generate and will help off set some of that.

If you increase the tail ratio to 4.5:1 (12t and 54T spur gears) now at 2150 on the main rotor, the tail is doing 9675 and we are back in the sweet spot for 96mm tails.

Obviously putting larger blades on is the easiest thing and I would certainly start there if you already have the tail blades.

My personal favorite combo for this bird as a 600 class is: 626 mains, 4.5:1 tail, and 106 tails at 2000 rpm.  LOVE IT!
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: awesomeOne on February 05, 2016, 07:19:17 PM
Great explanation. Thanks for the detailed write up. I'll post an update once I order,build and fly.

Stuart
Citizen #507
   

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: anthony on February 15, 2016, 05:15:54 PM
what effect would putting too large a tail blade on.  ie what would happen to the tail in flight with your setup but running 106mm blades, would there be an adverse effect or would it be like using too long servo arms on the cyclic so you wouldn't have the right mechanical setup ( hope I explained that well enough)
Anthony
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 15, 2016, 08:45:55 PM

what effect would putting too large a tail blade on.  ie what would happen to the tail in flight with your setup but running 106mm blades, would there be an adverse effect or would it be like using too long servo arms on the cyclic so you wouldn't have the right mechanical setup ( hope I explained that well enough)
Anthony

Yes that is a fairly accurate assessment. Larger tail blades equals more tail authority. Will manifest as similar to two much mechanical gain. 

I have ran 106 with this setup. Other than a little less gyro gain needed it flew fine. 116 at that headspeeds would likely cause issues and over gaining.


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Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: anthony on February 16, 2016, 05:00:16 AM
is the tail target range specific to each model or is it a universal number , would the same tail speed work on a 450 as well as a 700 , obviously the gearing would need to be different for each heli , or does each heli have its own ideal range? i have a couple of other models that have been stretched and i have had to increase the tail blades to stop them blowing out and i was wondering if there is a way to determine the tail blade size before having problems
Anthony
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: mike_capflyer on February 07, 2018, 02:25:55 PM
That is a excellent set up. Motor and blades will work just fine. Matt has made stretching very easy, in the synergy store is a stretch kit. You want the 626 stretch kit. This will allow you to run blades from 610 to 626.

You can try the 95's but you may prefer the 105's less you increase the tail ratio. Depends on how hard you fly.


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Hey Chris,
I bought the 600 stretch kit, not the 626 kit, so does this mean I can go up to 609mm blades?  In other words, I couldn't use the Cyclone 615mm blades but I can use the Rail 606s?  Thanks for confirming what I suspect the answer to be.

Michael

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Chris Sexton on February 07, 2018, 07:26:41 PM
That is a excellent set up. Motor and blades will work just fine. Matt has made stretching very easy, in the synergy store is a stretch kit. You want the 626 stretch kit. This will allow you to run blades from 610 to 626.

You can try the 95's but you may prefer the 105's less you increase the tail ratio. Depends on how hard you fly.


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Hey Chris,
I bought the 600 stretch kit, not the 626 kit, so does this mean I can go up to 609mm blades?  In other words, I couldn't use the Cyclone 615mm blades but I can use the Rail 606s?  Thanks for confirming what I suspect the answer to be.

Michael


I wouldn’t try longer than 606/106. 712mm cumulative total.


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Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: cml001 on February 27, 2018, 09:23:23 AM
The difference in size between the 2 stretch kits is to allow for clearence between the main & tail rotor blades. You do not want the blades to strike each other in flight. Keep in mind the main rotors do flex and it’s possible for them impede the tail rotor. So if you do go with larger tail blades, the 626 stretch kit may be the better option.
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: cml001 on February 27, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
Lol, didn’t notice page 2.. what Chris said! Lol
Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Justin Spicer on March 29, 2018, 08:34:56 PM
I run the 626 stretch kit with 106 tail blades. Stock transmisions ratio. The tail authority is great above 2000 RPM. I fly at 2250 rpm.
I only get 4 minutes with 3700s. 3300s are fun but I only 3:30 and its a little light on a windy day.

Title: Re: E5 stretch advice
Post by: Cliff Chmiel on April 09, 2018, 12:57:41 PM
IM running the stretch 626 and love it autos much better  then 556 blades, and running the 96 tails but I do have the tail sped up. And works great if you want to try some low head speed stuff with one 6s. Cliff