Synergy Support

Synergy Electric Helicopters => Synergy 516 => Topic started by: Rob Cherry on June 06, 2017, 08:53:42 AM

Title: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 06, 2017, 08:53:42 AM
Here's my current running configuration...   ;D ;D ;D

Scorpion HK4020-1350kv
Castle Talon 90, bec at 8v
MKS HV9767 cyclics
MKS HBL980 tail
Vbar
Rail 516mm and 80.6mm
Head speed 2700rpm
Pulse 4500 45c 6s

Matt's running the same except for BLS 276 Tail, CGY750 and Thunder Power 4400 70C packs.

Pictures attached. While not completely fair to compare the 516 to a stretched E5, these pics will give a sense of scale next to the E5 frame. Notice the meaty parts are much smaller and lighter, more appropriate for the 516. Overall, it's not significantly smaller than an E5, but it is much leaner throughout.  Still waiting for my canopy!!!!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cliff Chmiel on June 06, 2017, 09:08:49 AM
Looks like a pocket rocket, love to see it on 12s OMG
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Chris Sexton on June 06, 2017, 09:12:13 AM
Here is my planned config:


Scorpion HK4020-1350kv
Castle Talon 90, bec at 8v
MKS HV9767 cyclics
MKS HBL980 tail
CGY-750
Rail 516mm and 80.6mm
Head speed 2500-2700rpm
Pulse 4500 45c
Hyperion 4100 35c



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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Darren Lee on June 06, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
And mine:

Scorpion HK4020-1350kv
Castle Talon 90, bec at 8v
Torq CL5180 cyclics
Torq BL9288 tail
Mini Vbar
Rail 516mm and 80.6mm
Head speed 2500-2700rpm
TP 4400 55C
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 06, 2017, 10:55:22 AM
What is the minimum length for the motor shaft?
I have an XNova 4020 1200kV with a shaft of 5mmx25mm, is 25mm long enough?
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 06, 2017, 12:13:34 PM
What is the minimum length for the motor shaft?
I have an XNova 4020 1200kV with a shaft of 5mmx25mm, is 25mm long enough?

31mm minimum, 32mm ideal. 31mm reaches the bottom of the bearing.

Was yours cut or is that stock length?

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 06, 2017, 01:15:57 PM
Not cut, it came with the 5x25mm shaft, I think it is intended for a Logo 480 which does not have a motor support bearing.
I also have a 6x36mm shaft which is the standard shaft for that motor, I'll machine it down to a 5x32mm on a lathe so it will be a perfect fit for the 516.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: cml001 on June 06, 2017, 06:17:40 PM
Here is what have ready for her.
Futaba CGY750 w the 6303 RX
Castle Talon 90
KDE 500XF 1350kv G3 ***
MKS HV9767 cyclic & HBL980 tail
Rail 516mm mains & 80.6mm tails
Pulse 4100mah 6s 45c

If any of u prefer the KDE as I do, please note u will need the optional 5mm shaft..

https://www.kdedirect.com/collections/single-rotor-brushless-replacement-kits/products/kde550xf-sr28-5mm (https://www.kdedirect.com/collections/single-rotor-brushless-replacement-kits/products/kde550xf-sr28-5mm)

Patrick at KDE is great and will likely install shaft for u upon ordering.. this fits the 5mm bearings & give enough length(32.5mm) to engage the pinion support bearing. Can't wait to get this kit!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Jon Yarger on June 06, 2017, 08:30:11 PM
It looks like the Xnova 4020 only comes witha 5mm x 25mm length. Does that mean the Xnova is out as an option? Unfortunately I don't have a lathe to turn down a 6mm shaft.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 06, 2017, 08:51:10 PM
It looks like the Xnova 4020 only comes witha 5mm x 25mm length. Does that mean the Xnova is out as an option? Unfortunately I don't have a lathe to turn down a 6mm shaft.
I'd shoot them an email. There may be enough demand for them to offer that as an option... They already have a lot of options for people.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: cml001 on June 06, 2017, 09:18:21 PM
If u like the Xnova but can't get the right shaft.. give the KDE a try.. they are nice!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Jon Yarger on June 06, 2017, 09:48:53 PM
I figure with how popular this heli will be. Xnova will most likely make a shaft for it.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Chris Sexton on June 06, 2017, 10:03:09 PM
I figure with how popular this heli will be. Xnova will most likely make a shaft for it.

Agreed

I would send messages to their support. Show them how many customers are looking for the option.


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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Jon Yarger on June 06, 2017, 11:00:39 PM
What length will we actually need for the 516?
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 06, 2017, 11:27:29 PM
Rob says:
31mm minimum, 32mm ideal. 31mm reaches the bottom of the bearing.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Jon Yarger on June 06, 2017, 11:41:24 PM
Ok, thank you.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cliff Chmiel on June 07, 2017, 08:06:05 AM
Guys I still have a scorpion 4025-1100 used in my 6s e5, change to 12s, will that work in the new 516? would save me a few bucks. Cliff
Title: Re: Configurati
Post by: cml001 on June 07, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
Rob, I know there will be a few tail speed options as Matt normally offers.. 3 different speeds? Is that right? What tail pulley did u test with? I seem to recall Matt & ur tails were set up differently... can u elaborate?
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 07, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
Guys I still have a scorpion 4025-1100 used in my 6s e5, change to 12s, will that work in the new 516? would save me a few bucks. Cliff
Yep. Scorpion sells a 5mm shaft for 4025 series motors.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 07, 2017, 09:01:35 AM
Rob, I know there will be a few tail speed options as Matt normally offers.. 3 different speeds? Is that right? What tail pulley did u test with? I seem to recall Matt & ur tails were set up differently... can u elaborate?
18,20,22. Mine had the 20t in the reveal, Matt's had 22. To be honest the 22 holds very well too, at higher headspeeds. The 20t will be included in the kit however, to allow guys to run lower headspeeds. Sort of a catch-all setup. Not sure anyone would ever buy the 22t, so it may not make the final cut. The 18t would be useful for headspeeds less than 2200 rpm.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cliff Chmiel on June 07, 2017, 09:28:48 AM
Cool thanks Rob
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cullen Colapietro on June 07, 2017, 05:46:22 PM
My setup will likely be:

Scorpion HKIII 4020 1350kv
Hobbywing 100a V3
Kingmax 1004s cls tail servo
Kingmax cls441hhv cyclic servo
Rail 516 mains
MSH Brain fbl
GensAce 6s 5000


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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Wolf51 on June 08, 2017, 06:27:31 AM
@Rob Cherry,

thanks for keeping us up to date with info about the 516.
I've wanted this heli from the moment I saw the reveal and its a certainty for my hangar.
Biggest problem being the wait until its released and available here in OZ.

I'm tending toward the Scorpion 4020-1350 because it seems optimal for this heli out of the box. No messing about.
But am still thinking maybe xnova 4020-1200?
Theres been some chat about modifying  the 6mm motor shaft on different motors to suit the planned 5mm pinions.
We could equally rebore the pinion for a 6mm shaft and substitute a 6mmID lower support bearing for the 5mm one that will be in the kit. Might open up some motor options for other folk as well.
Any reason that wouldn't work?

Also on the motor, if using a 4020-1200kv do you think there'd be any problems with bogging if you pushed the main gear ratio up to achieve 2600-2700 headspeed?

I noticed that the flight pack on the prototypes is pushed forward to the front locking hole in the frame and you're using a 4500 Pulse pack. That suggests the heli is on the limit for COG with your config?
I'm planning to use a 4000 60c gensace which is a bit lighter than the 4500 Pulse pack.
Will probably use a Hobbywing 100 v3 ESC which weighs a little more than your Talon 90.
Is there space in the front of the canopy to push the battery further forward for COG if necessary?

Finally, am I right thinking the landing gear mounts are the same as those on the E5?

Cheers

Wolf
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Alan on June 08, 2017, 07:19:22 AM
I checked with my Xnova source.  The 4025 shaft will fit the 4020 and is 5x32mm.
The 4025-1120 will do as well if not better. A little more $$ though.

Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 08, 2017, 07:23:32 AM
I checked with my Xnova source.  The 4025 shaft will fit the 4020 and is 5x32mm.
The 4025-1120 will do as well if not better. A little more $$ though.

Cheers
Alan
This is good news... And it's only $8.49 from what I can tell by looking around.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Alan on June 08, 2017, 07:25:37 AM
I have a 4020. I will order the shaft and report my findings.

Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 08, 2017, 08:27:43 AM
@Rob Cherry,

thanks for keeping us up to date with info about the 516.
I've wanted this heli from the moment I saw the reveal and its a certainty for my hangar.
Biggest problem being the wait until its released and available here in OZ.

I'm tending toward the Scorpion 4020-1350 because it seems optimal for this heli out of the box. No messing about.
But am still thinking maybe xnova 4020-1200?
Theres been some chat about modifying  the 6mm motor shaft on different motors to suit the planned 5mm pinions.
We could equally rebore the pinion for a 6mm shaft and substitute a 6mmID lower support bearing for the 5mm one that will be in the kit. Might open up some motor options for other folk as well.
Any reason that wouldn't work?

Also on the motor, if using a 4020-1200kv do you think there'd be any problems with bogging if you pushed the main gear ratio up to achieve 2600-2700 headspeed?

I noticed that the flight pack on the prototypes is pushed forward to the front locking hole in the frame and you're using a 4500 Pulse pack. That suggests the heli is on the limit for COG with your config?
I'm planning to use a 4000 60c gensace which is a bit lighter than the 4500 Pulse pack.
Will probably use a Hobbywing 100 v3 ESC which weighs a little more than your Talon 90.
Is there space in the front of the canopy to push the battery further forward for COG if necessary?

Finally, am I right thinking the landing gear mounts are the same as those on the E5?

Cheers

Wolf
Finding a different shaft is definitely simpler.

Bogging will be dependent on the power capabilities of the motor, which I'm not familiar with.

Cg shouldn't be an issue. That gens ace battery is almost 50g more than the pulse 4500 45c that I have, which weighs 650g on an accurate scale.

Landing gear mounting dimensions are the same as e5 and E7/n7. The mounts themselves are different. This heli shares no manufactured parts with any other model except tail pitch slider, tail hub, and tail grips. (dampers and head axle pivot too, if we're being picky) :)



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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Alan on June 08, 2017, 09:01:06 AM
And to be clear that is the 4025 XNova C Shaft. 

It may be a week or two. I may have to order it directly from XNOva.

Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 08, 2017, 10:51:37 AM
And to be clear that is the 4025 XNova C Shaft. 

It may be a week or two. I may have to order it directly from XNOva.

Cheers
Alan

Let's hope it works that would be awesome but I don't see how it is possible because the body is 5mm longer on the 4025 (57.2mm) than the 4020 (52.2mm) and the shaft goes all the way to the bottom.


Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 08, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
And to be clear that is the 4025 XNova C Shaft. 

It may be a week or two. I may have to order it directly from XNOva.

Cheers
Alan

Let's hope it works that would be awesome but I don't see how it is possible because the body is 5mm longer on the 4025 (57.2mm) than the 4020 (52.2mm) and the shaft goes all the way to the bottom.

I think it would stick out the top of the can 5mm. Or could be cut with a dremel.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Alan on June 08, 2017, 11:04:14 AM
Yes. It will require some trimming. And cutting a new flat spot on the motor side. I have two shafts and a second XNova arriving next week. I will post those results.  It should not be an issue. I have frequently altered motor shafts as needed.

Cheers
Alan


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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 08, 2017, 11:23:47 AM
OK, I see.
Are you going to cut the bottom and create new flat spots for 2 set screws?
That should work.

Here is a photo of an XNova 4020 shaft:


Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 08, 2017, 01:04:00 PM
Double post
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Alan on June 08, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Yes that was the plan in addition to a little shortening.

Cheers

Alan


OK, I see.
Are you going to cut the bottom and create new flat spots for 2 set screws?
That should work.

Here is a photo of an XNova 4020 shaft:
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 08, 2017, 01:47:11 PM
Easy enough with a dremel until Xnova comes out with an actual part. :)
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: TheBum on June 09, 2017, 12:02:45 PM
Any chance that the motor pinion options will expand? I have an Xnova 4025-1120 I'd love to use, but in order to get the head speeds I want, I'd need a 20T pinion. Thus far, only 16T-19T pinions have been announced.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 09, 2017, 01:16:23 PM
16-21 have been confirmed. I mentioned it above, but maybe the specs on Matt's site need to be updated.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: TheBum on June 09, 2017, 01:58:25 PM
16-21 have been confirmed. I mentioned it above, but maybe the specs on Matt's site need to be updated.
Even better! That brings it within the realm of several ~1100Kv motors.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Ross Lawton on June 10, 2017, 04:09:01 PM
Itching to get my hands on the 516, my planned config is the following:

Scorpion 4020-1350kv
Castle Creations Talon 90
Futaba BLS173SV Cyclic's
Futaba BLS276SV Tail
Futaba CGY750
Rail 516 and 80.6
Headspeed 2700
Optipower 4300 50c 6s
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 10, 2017, 06:13:18 PM
Itching to get my hands on the 516, my planned config is the following:

Scorpion 4020-1350kv
Castle Creations Talon 90
Futaba BLS173SV Cyclic's
Futaba BLS276SV Tail
Futaba CGY750
Rail 516 and 80.6
Headspeed 2700
Optipower 4300 50c 6s
The futaba minis don't exactly fit. Maybe we should make an announcement so people (and futaba) know. They are 2mm short on each side. They can be made to fit with adapters or large washers, but it's not simply plug an play. :(

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Ross Lawton on June 11, 2017, 12:03:06 PM
Itching to get my hands on the 516, my planned config is the following:

Scorpion 4020-1350kv
Castle Creations Talon 90
Futaba BLS173SV Cyclic's
Futaba BLS276SV Tail
Futaba CGY750
Rail 516 and 80.6
Headspeed 2700
Optipower 4300 50c 6s
The futaba minis don't exactly fit. Maybe we should make an announcement so people (and futaba) know. They are 2mm short on each side. They can be made to fit with adapters or large washers, but it's not simply plug an play. :(

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Gutted, i was looking forward to giving the a try too!  :(
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Josh Easter on June 12, 2017, 02:10:43 PM
ahhh i can't wait!!

I will run

Scorpion HKlll 4020-1350kv
Scorpion tribunus 06-120 SBEC
MKS HV9767 cyclics
MKS HBL980 tail Maybe I really like the futaba also ;)
Vbar neo with vcontrol

Bring it on Matt!!!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: TheBum on June 12, 2017, 02:23:03 PM
Is there a list of cyclics that are known to fit? What dimensions do they need?
Title: Configurations
Post by: Chris Sexton on June 12, 2017, 03:26:32 PM
Is there a list of cyclics that are known to fit? What dimensions do they need?


See Rob's post down 2 posts.


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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Roger on June 12, 2017, 04:11:31 PM
I hope something from the Xpert line fits.
Title: Configurations
Post by: Chris Sexton on June 12, 2017, 04:28:20 PM
...
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 12, 2017, 04:44:05 PM
I hope something from the Xpert line fits.

The challenge we're running into is the distance between mounting tabs. I've attached an image showing how the Futaba's fall short by 4mm total... other brands as well. The mount hole spacing should be ~42.5mm. When they fall short it's up to the end user to accommodate and adapt, which is what a lot of guys have done on other helis.

However, Synery can only recommend servos that are a direct fit without requiring custom adapters or large washers. So far the confirmed list is very small: MKS, BK and Savox/Align.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: TheBum on June 12, 2017, 05:52:09 PM
The Kingmax CLS4411HHV servos that Shannon will be offering in one of his combos should fit pretty well then. The hole spacing on them is 41.96mm.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 12, 2017, 07:16:59 PM
The Kingmax CLS4411HHV servos that Shannon will be offering in one of his combos should fit pretty well then. The hole spacing on them is 41.96mm.
Close enough!

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 13, 2017, 01:17:54 PM
Does the cyclic servo horns still have the ball at 20mm from center?
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 13, 2017, 06:58:48 PM
That won't be as important as long as they are all the same. Turnbuckles have lots of adjustment for length.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: codepox (Guillaume) on June 14, 2017, 11:32:02 AM
Awesome, thanks.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Greg Jackson on June 18, 2017, 10:30:17 PM
I've had my electronics sitting for months, can't wait to get them mounted.

Scorpion 4020-1350
BK 5001HV
BK 7006HV
Rail Blades
ESC?????? Still undecided
Pulse 3700, 4100, 4500
Brain2 HD
Doing some testing with the cyclic settings now to make sure the ring does not induce the possibility of boom strikes. On my E7  I lowered the recommended 10 degrees down to around 9, while stillnrunning 13į pitch, and I'm getting 21 to 22 all around like vbar. Still handles everything I can through at it.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Gabriel Sandoval on June 20, 2017, 10:15:19 AM
I'm running the recommended setup with exception to the FBL and servos. Servos will be JR ELSO1 QRS and tail ELGO1 QRS which do not fit exactly perfect so out comes the milling machine to save the day with adapter brackets.
Batteries will be ??? I walked from TP so open to options there. Spartan FBL as usual.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rob Cherry on June 22, 2017, 09:00:18 AM
I'm running the recommended setup with exception to the FBL and servos. Servos will be JR ELSO1 QRS and tail ELGO1 QRS which do not fit exactly perfect so out comes the milling machine to save the day with adapter brackets.
Batteries will be ??? I walked from TP so open to options there. Spartan FBL as usual.

Yeah, avoid TP like the plague. QC is gone, source cells are junk. I take great care of packs and have never had so many issues in just one year with 7 packs dying...  Loving my Pulse 4500 45c and what remains of some 4-5 year old 4400 35c Gens Ace. :)
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: cml001 on June 22, 2017, 10:42:51 AM
This year I had my first Pulse go bad... I got over 3yrs out of it!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Gabriel Sandoval on June 22, 2017, 11:03:38 AM
Yep has a brand new 6S pack go bad at IRCHA last year and sent it in for warranty. They created a service ticket then after a week or so it disappeared from my order list so another email sent. Waited 3 weeks for a reply saying no warranty on the pack and no reason for their decision. Besides waiting months for a pack from order to arrival and to have them be bad and poor customer service from your sponsor is no good. Done with them FOREVER and I have used them with great results in the past even though they had the oddball balance lead. I have had Pulse Rx packs go bad but after 2 years of service for $25 you can't go wrong and I can get them from JR Americas at the team price...Best of all is they show up in 3 days if in stock.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Rodney Kirstine on June 22, 2017, 06:24:14 PM
I bought several each of 4400 and 5000 6S packs last year and they are a bitch to keep balanced.  First and last TP packs for me.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 02, 2017, 03:41:23 PM
Hey guys,

Several had asked about the XNova motors earlier.

XNova has agreed to make the 4020-1200 with a 32mm shaft with the flat cut all the way down the shaft.  I have a bunch of them on the way and they will be available soon.

Looking forward to this machine!!!
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Jon Yarger on July 02, 2017, 08:16:01 PM
Will you have shafts only for those that already have a motor?
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 02, 2017, 08:59:42 PM
Yes, I will have shafts only for conversion of existing motors as well.

Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cullen Colapietro on July 02, 2017, 11:07:58 PM
Awesome to hear Shannon!

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Title: Configurations
Post by: TheBum on July 02, 2017, 11:33:41 PM
Sounds great, Shannon! I guess Iíll pull the 4020-1200 off the OFH order Iím preparing for the sale.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 04, 2017, 05:45:32 AM
Well guys, I have even better news.   :)

After talking with XNova further, they are making a new motor for us that will be a 4020-1350kv with a 32mm shaft and a full length flat spot.  Basically, this motor is designed specifically for the new 516.

I should have them in stock before IRCHA.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Wolf51 on July 04, 2017, 06:50:11 AM
That is great news,

I'm liking the Xnova motor in my 766 and will get one for my 516, when they come.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Roger on July 07, 2017, 10:14:19 PM
I want one of the new xnova motors in mine.  Will you be at IRCHA and if so will you have motors to sell?

ROG
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 08, 2017, 05:10:12 AM
Yes I'll have a tent at IRCHA and I should have the motors in and available for sale then - thanks
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 20, 2017, 12:44:39 PM
The XNova 4020 1350kv motors are here!

They will be available on the new site as soon as we go live with it.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Wolf51 on July 20, 2017, 04:11:38 PM
Wooohoooo!
Are they the same watts and amps as the 4020-1200kv?

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Only Fine Helis on July 20, 2017, 08:23:18 PM
I'm waiting for exact specs from them, but when we originally talked about them, the specs were slightly better.  My guess is they will quote them the same as the other kv's.
Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: FlamingHomer on August 08, 2017, 06:51:39 PM
Short question....
What do you guys think about an 5000mAh pack in the 516?
Im planning to get one with a light Hobbywing 100A ESC.
Has anyone tested a big pack on it?
The reason is that i have this packs already from my E5 and wanna use this if its possible.



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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cullen Colapietro on August 11, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
How heavy are your 5000s? The pulse 4500 is 650g. My gens ace 5000 45c are 710g.

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: FlamingHomer on August 12, 2017, 04:43:29 PM
720gr.here with 5000mAh 50C

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Title: Re: Configurations
Post by: Cullen Colapietro on August 13, 2017, 12:10:08 PM
I think it'll depend on your flying style. If you need the utmost precision in crisp 3d, lighter packs may be desirable. I'm no slouch on the sticks, but surely don't need cutting edge performance, so I'm going to stick with my 5000s, especially if there's a stretch down the road.

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