April 26, 2024, 02:06:03 AM

Author Topic: clutch/liner gap from the factory  (Read 6909 times)

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 07:55:03 PM »
Would it be crazy to just ask for a new bell assembly with the liner installed? I am kind of sick of all this, and want to get my new bird up before I leave for IRCHA next week. Do I need to call Synergy customer service?

Offline Chris Sexton

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 08:16:53 PM »
Would it be crazy to just ask for a new bell assembly with the liner installed? I am kind of sick of all this, and want to get my new bird up before I leave for IRCHA next week. Do I need to call Synergy customer service?


Email Matt. Matt@mattbotos.com


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Chris Sexton
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Offline Matt Botos

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 09:21:31 PM »
Hello Jacob,

I'm sure we can get through this with little to no trouble. Your video helps tremendously with troubleshooting this problem.

In the video, the model is not spooling past the low end due to a rich condition. Make sure your low end needle is set parallel with the carb. Your clutch is finally grabbing at 50% throttle because your air to fuel mixture is too rich. Increasing the throttle opens the barrel of the carb but doesn't really affect the RPM because there is too much fuel. Your assessment of drowning the motor in fuel is correct, the sudden RPM change is because the motor finally became hot enough to begin to handle the amount of fuel. This is also very apparent by the amount of smoke you are putting out in the video.

The mid range needle should be set around 1/2
The high end needle to start should be around 1 3/4

Check your exhaust pressure line.
Check all of your fuel lines and fittings.

The clutch liner gap is correct, no need to worry about that anymore. One thing that will cause a clutch to slip is grease and oil. However, once your helicopter spooled up to a normal head speed and you were applying pitch, I did not hear the clutch slip at all.

If you are new to nitro, tuning is one of the most difficult aspects of owning a nitro powered helicopter. The next is knowing the warning signs of when your engine needs to be rebuilt. With an OS55HZ, with regular flying, the engine should be rebuilt at least once a year. If the engine has been sitting for a long period of time without some sort of engine treatment applied, the rear bearing will rust and cause all sorts of problems.

If you can not get it tuned properly before IRCHA, I would be more than happy to help you tune the engine at IRCHA.

Thanks!

Matt Botos
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:28:24 PM by Matt Botos »

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 09:41:26 PM »
Thanks Matt, I'll try to richen it a bit and see. The funny thing is I have had about the same needle settings on my Fury 55 (1 3/4 both needles)  and didn't have this problem. But I will try what you suggest and see how it goes.

1/2 on the mid needle seems incredibly lean, is that right or did you mean 1 1/2?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:43:38 PM by jmdanna »

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 09:42:47 PM »
Thanks Matt, I'll try to richen it a bit and see.

I meant lean  ::)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:44:39 PM by jmdanna »

Offline FlamingHomer

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 07:55:21 AM »
Hi,

Ur Mechanic sounds good but ur motor is running very rich.

The tuning Videos from Tim jones are awesome to set ur needles.
https://youtu.be/YvU3FiiuMxE

Maybe u watch it first before u destroy ur engine 😉

Greetings from switzerland

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 11:18:50 AM »
I watched the videos, good info there!

So good news, I leaned the needles up and it was much easier to spool up. I set the idle screw in the middle (it was a few degrees rich), set the mid needle to 1 1/2, and the high to 1 3/4. So from before that is 2 clicks in on the high needle, and 12 clicks in on the mid (lol).

I am going to upload 2 videos, one when I was using throttle curves, and one after I switched to governor. I proceeded to lean the high needle another 2 clicks in the second video, because I thought the engine sounded like it was gurgling in the climb out. But then in the same flight I thought I heard a pinging sound (although it was when the muffler was pointing at me so i don't know if that counts) so clearly my ear is not trained  ::)

When the videos go up I would love if any of you could try to listen to it and tell me if my thinking is straight  :D
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 11:20:24 AM by jmdanna »

Offline Chris Sexton

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 11:24:43 AM »
Careful going too lean until you finish breaking in the ring. It will smooth out some and not seem as rich once the ring is set. Then you can start leaning for power.


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Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2016, 11:28:27 AM »
Careful going too lean until you finish breaking in the ring. It will smooth out some and not seem as rich once the ring is set. Then you can start leaning for power.


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This engine was broken in prior to building this helicopter. It was run in a Fury 55. I generally ran it at 1 3/4 on both needles after broken in.

The reason I was running it rich now was because I just did some work on the Magnum bushing (not sure what your opinions are on the thing in this forum, i know some love it and some hate it), and was giving it a mini break in.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 11:31:11 AM by jmdanna »

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2016, 12:38:17 PM »
Videos are stuck at 0% uploading. I guess Youtube is having some server issues.

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2016, 01:44:07 PM »
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-wN6gtDQBU&feature=youtu.be

Okay here is the first video. I am still on throttle curves at this point. Nothing special but as you can see I was able to take off much easier this time. Doing some punch outs to try to get an ear for what rich sounds like. I "think" I hear gurgling, but I am not sure. At 3:10 I land and take off again to see if spool up is any easier on a warm engine, i think it is. Conclusion is that I am still rich, have no power, but I decide it's time to switch the governor back on and see if anything has changed, and go from there. That is next video.

Offline Matt Botos

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2016, 03:02:19 PM »
Hello Jacob,

You are still very rich. Your tic tocs loaded down the motor almost immediately. Most of your flying in the video is in the mid range, you are rarely using the high needle. However, the high needle needs to be set as close as possible first.

Settings will vary depending on the following....

- Nitro percentage (assuming you are running 30%)
- Fuel Quality (only Cool Power, Byrons, and VP)
- shims under the head?
- elevation where you fly (I fly around 800ft)
- carb style (hz-r regulated or muffler pressure)
- flying style
- carb production (all carbs are not the same)
- Magnum bushing (I do not care for it, there is no substitute for a bearing)

I'll help you at IRCHA. :)

Matt








« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 03:15:02 PM by Matt Botos »

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2016, 03:33:47 PM »
Yeah it seems like it, and it's hard to open up the throttle in such a small space. I don't have a field near me that isn't full of corn stalks. Here are some answers to your questions:
-30% nitro
-Byron
-Stock shim
-Around 450 feet
-Muffler pressure
-Mildish 3D (This is generally how I fly when I am not worrying about tuning a motor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoPmZ7m24ao)
-OS carb 40L

Thanks, Matt. At IRCHA I'm going to be switching out this motor for a brand new OS 55 HZ-R and having a friend help me break in and tune it who has much more experience than me. You are welcome to take a look at it if you'd like!
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 11:09:59 PM by jmdanna »

Offline jmdanna

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2016, 11:08:32 PM »
www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2qxh7e_sAM

I finally got Youtube to cooperate. Here is the second video. Sorry about the camera going out of focus, that doesn't usually happen. Maybe the smoke confuses it.

I turned the governor back on, using recommended throttle curves on my transmitter. Governor is set to spool to 1900 and Idle 1 is set to 2000. Idle 2 is 2100 but I don't think I'll use that as the power band of the motor should be sitting at 2000 with this gear ratio. Spool up was still slow but I was able to take off.

In the initial punch outs around 1:50 I am hearing what I think are gurgling noises. Can you confirm that is what gurgling sounds like?

I can tell I am still very rich so at 2:30 I bring it down and lean the high needle 2 clicks to see what change it makes. It definitely helped the punchouts and tic tocs, but I think it's still pretty rich. Spooling up I am unable to get it going again, but the rpm it's sitting is much higher than before the changes. Before the blades wouldn't even spin. Switching into Idle 1 here gets me up in the air. After this flight I adjust my normal mode throttle curve a little higher and it seems to have helped spool up quicker, and not get stuck like what happened at around the 4 minute mark.

4:40 punch outs I still hear gurgling. I also notice very quick recovery after tic tocs, so I know that means rich.

I am not sure in this flight where I heard the pinging noise. I don't hear anything while rewatching the video. Maybe it was just my imagination.

Offline Matt Botos

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Re: clutch/liner gap from the factory
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2016, 11:18:25 AM »
I can definitely hear what sounds like a rich gurgle on punch outs. The smoke trail is also very large when  you are climbing out.

Which muffler are you using?

Matt