January 20, 2018, 10:14:05 PM

Author Topic: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations  (Read 369 times)

Offline Wayne Derrick

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Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« on: December 10, 2017, 08:48:04 AM »
Good Morning Everyone,

     I started my 516 build yesterday!  Everything went well until I got to the part where you assemble the two frame halves together.  I put the main shaft in the bearing blocks and started tightening the two halves together while on a 18x18 sheet of glass.  Every time I would tighten one side the main shaft would bind.  Tighten the corresponding bolt on the opposite frame side the main shaft would bind.  This went on for hours and I could not get it to slide freely.  Finally, I got the upper and middle bearing block tightened to where the main shaft would slide freely,  The bottom bearing block had binding.  I eventually noticed two of the four 2.5x6mm bolts on the lower bearing block were not straight and wobbled.  I do not have any spares so I can't correct that until I can get the replacement parts.  I decided to attach the landing gear support braces and that went O.K. until I attached the main landing gear and more binding on the main shaft.  After that.... I quit!  To be honest, this has been the most frustrating build I have ever had and I know for a fact that a Synergy kit assembles a lot better than what I am experiencing.  It could also be me and my frustration level at that point.  I will order new parts and see what happens.  Thank You for letting me vent to the community.  So far this is what I need:

1 x Main Shaft
4 x Lower Bearing Block Bolts
1 X Boom Block Bolt (head deformed)

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Wayne Derrick

Offline earlybird0513

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 09:11:03 AM »
Sorry your having a problem. I myself and a few others had problems with the main shaft aligning w/ the 3rd bearing block. I found by applying variable finger pressure on one of the four corners of the upper bearing block you will find that sweet spot and the shaft will drop freely through, I would then locktite and tighten that screw and make sure it slid down freely. As for bad parts, that sucks, hope you get it resolved


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Offline Chris Sexton

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 09:15:22 AM »
Good morning I am sorry you are having some trouble. I feel partially responsible. In my video I think I may have over emphasized the necessity of getting the mainshaft smooth. Itís never going to be 100% smooth it has to bind a little so that the bearing races rotate with the main shaft.

What you want to have is it not restrict the rotation. If you try to get it to where the main shaft has no friction on the bearings youíll never get there. Most commonly the lowest bearing block is what is used to create that tension. I am sorry youíve had some frustrations but sounds like you are there. If you truly need some new bolts shoot me a PM Iíll shoot some your way first thing tomorrow.

Why do you feel you need a new main shaft?


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Chris Sexton
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Offline Wayne Derrick

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 09:40:10 AM »
Good Morning Chris,

     Yes! I will need them to complete the lower bearing block and the boom support.  I can see the main shaft wobble in the bearing blocks when spinning.  The main shaft is really tight in the bearing blocks and is not close to sliding freely with slight downward pressure.  I planned on ordering one to verify as I do not have a run out gauge to check it with.  If it turns out the second main shaft has that same problem then I guess I will have a spare main shaft.  Thank you for your assistance.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Wayne Derrick

Offline Wayne Derrick

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 09:49:15 AM »
Good Morning earlybird0513,

     Yes Sir!  I did that most of the evening last night trying to get everything to align.  I also understand there is going to be a little drag in the up and down movement of the main shaft to allow it to grip the inner part of the bearing.  But the main shaft currently has a lot of drag up and down indicating binding.  Although it would be nice to have it as free as Chris Sexton did, I do not believe I will get there with the parts I have now.  I still want to try another main shaft to rule it out.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Wayne Derrick

Offline TheBum

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 09:51:20 AM »
The main shaft being tight in the bearings is a good thing. It means thereís excellent contact between the shaft and the inner race, which will reduce the risk of the main shaft spinning within the inner race and wearing it down.

Offline Rob Cherry

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 11:59:07 AM »
Hey Wayne. Sorry you're having such a difficult time. If it puts your mind at ease, you're stressed out about nothing. I've built a few 516's, and one has a main shaft that actually hits the lower block bearing, needing a lot of force to go through. My frames are perfectly square using a reference plate, but the cf frames are flexible and can slightly move the lower bearing block left or right. This isn't a twist either, but a lateral translation.

The only thing that's happening here is additional side load (radial) placed on the bearings. Radial loading is what they are designed for.

In flight, the helicopter experiences cyclic forces that put significant radial load on the main shaft bearings.

I apologize, we've focused way too much on squaring up the frames, but the true goal is to have square frames, not a perfectly free sliding main shaft. Square frames are what you're after. Square and true frames will prevent twisted bearings.

I hope this makes sense. If not, I'd be happy to illustrate this to better demonstrate what's going on here and why it doesn't matter.

As far as any main shaft wobbles, are you looking at it from the bottom? Our shafts are centerless ground, which can leave the ID hole non-concentric in respect to the OD. You'd need a set of vblocks and a dial to indicate the amount of runout on the OD, which is less than 2 thou by spec.

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« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 12:32:38 PM by Rob Cherry »
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Offline earlybird0513

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 03:00:48 PM »
Good Morning earlybird0513,

     Yes Sir!  I did that most of the evening last night trying to get everything to align.  I also understand there is going to be a little drag in the up and down movement of the main shaft to allow it to grip the inner part of the bearing.  But the main shaft currently has a lot of drag up and down indicating binding.  Although it would be nice to have it as free as Chris Sexton did, I do not believe I will get there with the parts I have now.  I still want to try another main shaft to rule it out.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
If an out of tolerance main shaft got pass qc at the machine shop then thereís nothing the builder can do... sorry itís taking long.


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Offline Wayne Derrick

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 09:16:12 PM »
Good Evening Rob Cherry,

     That is exactly what is going on with my 516.  The frame is straight and square and the main shaft slides through the first two bearing blocks just fine.  When the main shaft gets to the third (lower) bearing block it hits it and stays there.  If you let it rest in tat position and look at it from the back of the heli looking between the second bearing block and the gyro tray at the third bearing block you can see a gap at the 5-9 o'clock area.  Loosening the left two socket head bolts removes the gap for the most part.  If all four bolts are really loose, the main shaft just falls through.  When I tighten the four bolts in any pattern it gets really tight like you mentioned and it does not matter if I turn the bearing block 180 degrees.  I even slid the battery tray in to see if it would make a difference but no luck there either.  I will not be able to work on it any more until the weekend gets here so it is what it is for now.  I fully understand that I ill not get the main shaft to slip freely like Chris Sexton did and I just want to make sure what I am seeing will not be an issue when I am finished and ready to fly.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Wayne Derrick

Offline Rob Cherry

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 08:46:16 AM »
Good Evening Rob Cherry,

     That is exactly what is going on with my 516.  The frame is straight and square and the main shaft slides through the first two bearing blocks just fine.  When the main shaft gets to the third (lower) bearing block it hits it and stays there.  If you let it rest in tat position and look at it from the back of the heli looking between the second bearing block and the gyro tray at the third bearing block you can see a gap at the 5-9 o'clock area.  Loosening the left two socket head bolts removes the gap for the most part.  If all four bolts are really loose, the main shaft just falls through.  When I tighten the four bolts in any pattern it gets really tight like you mentioned and it does not matter if I turn the bearing block 180 degrees.  I even slid the battery tray in to see if it would make a difference but no luck there either.  I will not be able to work on it any more until the weekend gets here so it is what it is for now.  I fully understand that I ill not get the main shaft to slip freely like Chris Sexton did and I just want to make sure what I am seeing will not be an issue when I am finished and ready to fly.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Yes, I'd finish up the heli as is.  Rob

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Offline Wayne Derrick

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 09:34:04 PM »
Thank You to everyone that responded to my concern with the main shaft and third bearing block.  I fully understand the issue now.  I went ahead and ordered a new main shaft, third bearing block, and some more 2.5x6mm bolts (most of that will end up as spare parts.  Matt contacted me and assisted with some of the parts and also took care of the bearing I had forgotten to order.  Matt took a good amount of his personal time and explained in great detail what Chris Sexton and Rob Cherry explained.  Thank You to Matt, Chris, and Rob!  It's people like you three and everyone here on the support forum that make this hobby a pleasure to be a part of.  I will start back on the build Saturday afternoon with the new parts if they arrive before then.  If not, I am sure I can build the head assembly, tail assembly, main gear, and belt tension arm.  I already assembled the tail control rod and it is ready for me to catch-up to that step.

Respectfully,

Wayne Derrick
Wayne Derrick

Offline cml001

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Re: Synergy 516 Build Frustrations
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 12:11:49 PM »
👍
Clay
I can fly helicopters... Upside down!