Synergy Tech Support
Synergy Nitro Helicopters => Synergy N5 / N5c => Topic started by: Dean H on March 24, 2016, 08:54:43 PM
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I am converting my entire fleet to Synergy. I am considering a nitro. I have 0 experience with nitro. Not even sure if I want to get a nitro bird... I've heard that a nitro will help gain better collective management skills. I'm on the fence as to whether the N5C or N7 is a better choice for a nitro beginner. Going by crash cost the N5C wins. Can I get some advice on the best engine and other equipment needed? I like simple setups. Thanks!
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N5C for your first nitro for the win! OS55-HZR. Hatori pipe if you can find one! CGY or Vbar. That will also take care of the Gov.
N5C is easy on the fuel. Flies very well. Lower cost than the N7. Nitro birds will help your collective management for sure.
Cheers
Alan
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How big is it? 606 blades seem kind of small???
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I can't speak for the N7 as I don't own one.. Really want one tho.. The N5C however.. Is my favorite heli... Out of my 550DFC, N5C, & E7SE... It's the first one i grab to head out the door with. Something about the nitro just makes u want to fly it... & it flys AWESOMELY! It will teach u collective management for sure.. Which I still need lessons.. Lol.. It's the easiest on prep for a quick trip to the field... Just the bird, 1rx pack, fuel & starter, & ur tX of course... No box of packs.. No generator & charging rig.. No waiting on charging.. No cool down period.. Just fly fly fly fly.. There is more in the way of cleaning & maintenance I suppose.. Size.. 606.. Have seen the YS60 in some w 626s.. But it in no way feels small.. Great bird!
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I agree with the previous posters. N5C for sure
Airframe - N5C
Blades - 606mains 96-106tails (I run 106mm tails because I do a lot of hard aileron maneuvers but 96 is perfect too)
Motor - OS55HZ or HZR, either works well in this heli. I recommend HZR for a new nitro pilot though
Pipe - Hatori (with the os55, I have actually had much better power running the hatori made for the ys60)
Servos - use a plastic case servo with 150oz +. plastic will keep the heli light.
RX pack - 2200-2500ma pack is plenty, and keeps the heli light. I run a 1800 when I really want it very light. just don't get many flights on it.
FBL - the NEO and CGY both work great on this heli and have great gov. I lean towards the NEO, only preference, no real reason.
Head Speeds - IU1-1950, IU2-2150 some guys like 2250 as well.
Fuel - ok, I will have some guys bounce back at me about this, but, it has been my experience that the os55 is easier to tune, AND makes more power with the rotor rage 22.5% vs the 30%. it may very well be my flight style, or the different pipe, or how I have my gov setup, I don't know. all I know is the heli flys better with 22.5%, AND its cheaper!
on my N5C, I am running 14* collective pitch, and 11.5* cyclic pitch in the neo and it pulls and pulls and pulls. a nitro is the absolute best way to better your collective management and overall flight skills IMO. there is a natural feel to a nitro that cannot be emulated by most electrics. it has to do with the combustion engine and the torque it produces at the bottom end (around center). you will fly that N5C for about 2 months, then you will be ordering an N7, TRUST ME....
the wife turned the camera sideways after she started recording, so you have to turn your head to really watch it well. LOL. she also lost it for about 10 seconds, once she finds it back though, its a decent video. not an entire flight, but you will get an idea of the power it has. the presents in the air is also not small, believe me, it flys and looks larger than it really is.
https://youtu.be/nPwoQEM7FDQ
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Add my name to the list who would wholeheartedly recommend the N5C with an OS55HZR. They just plain fly and fly and fly. It was my first nitro helicopter and it's definitely easier on the wallet in case you get a little too aggressive on your tune and hurt the motor. I love my N7, too, but there's something about the N5C that makes me always want to fly it first. I run a Funtech B320 pipe on mine and the OS55 makes enough power to do full pitch climb-outs forever without it bogging.
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I have both, the N5c is my current favorite. Going to spend time getting better at autos with it this year. I like the older weird bell crank style. The N7 is great also, just paying more for fuel and parts.
Barry
Perspective Visuals
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I too have both. The N5c was my first ever nitro, and man did it start something...
I am VERY partial to my N5cs. Even built a dedicated night bird.
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Thanks everybody for your responses! Well, I've done it now....I took advantage of the Easter sales and found it in stock across the pond. I ordered a N5C kit, Hatori pipe, OS HZ-R engine, 606 mains and 96 tails! Regarding the pipe, Midland Helis listed it as #566 (for use with YS56SR and OS55). Everywhere I looked online the pipe for the OS55 is SAB-55. I cannot find a reference that connects #566 w/ SAB-55. I'm just wondering if I got the correct pipe or if there is a difference between the two???
I'm pulling the BLS272's and BLS276 off my Goblin 700 and will put a CGY750 in it. What is a good throttle servo?
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Yeah the SAB-55 fit the YS too. That's the one.
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I am using one of the new Xpert mini cyclic servos on mine. The BK 5001 works but you have to trim the carbon a bit to get the larger servo motor to clear.
JR 3717 works too
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I'm using the BK DS-5001.
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Cool, thanks!
What other odds & ends are you guys using? Bubbleless clunk, glow igniter, etc.????
What are your thoughts on yhe Align starter?
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No. No no no. Align starter is a jackhammer. Buy once. Sullivan Dynatron and the Sullivan starter wand. Never need another
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Hahaha...like everything, you get what you pay for, huh! I will take that advice! Thanks, Chris!
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Oh and as for clunk and glow driver, I really like the new weighted Lynx MOAS. Cheap and will suck the tank dry in my N7. For glow I use the ProTec push glo type. Doesn't require any channels or setup in the radio and is very low footprint. Plus if the glow plug is burned it won't fire and the beeps tell you. I got both from Amain.com.
Make sure you get fuel filter and a couple "T"s
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This is a pretty slick unit. I'm using a Switchglo pro along with the version of this switch without the igniter. This version has the whole enchilada, though.
http://www.perfectregulators.com/Fail-Safe-Switches/Safe-Switch-Duo-Pro (http://www.perfectregulators.com/Fail-Safe-Switches/Safe-Switch-Duo-Pro)
You'll want a glow plug wrench. You'll need a fuel pump and some fuel line.
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The safe switch pro duo is awesome! I've used them too! Great all in one solution.
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That does look awesome!
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Don't know if anyone mentioned this but you'll need a back plate sensor or a clutch bell magnet setup for the governor. I prefer the back plate sensor just for ease of setup.
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Thanks! It's on my list. I use Futaba gear and the OS 55HZ-R has a fitting built in for Futaba BPS-1. Is this simply a plug and play item? Is one yup of sensor better than the other?
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Hello Guys,
U dont need a Governor on a 55 Engine. If u want the best Power out of it simply use a V-Curve on the throttle. I flew many years with nitro gov. But without the governor u have much more power in hard stops. Thats my experience with the Nitro Governors.
Greetings from switzerland
Cheers chris
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Thanks! It's on my list. I use Futaba gear and the OS 55HZ-R has a fitting built in for Futaba BPS-1. Is this simply a plug and play item? Is one yup of sensor better than the other?
Neither of them are better than the other the back plate sensor is just easier to install. I've personally had clutch bell magnets dislodge (possibly user error) in the past others use them without any problems. It all depends on what you want to do they'll both accomplish the same thing. The sensor you plan to use is compatible with most probably all fbl systems so that shouldn't be a problem and they are all basically plug and play you'll only have to set the sensor divisor to 1 and the gear ratio to 8.5 in the fbl unit.
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I had nothing but problems with the BPS-1 on my OS55 and 105. I switched to magnets in the clutch bell and the magnetic sensor (SBS-01RM) and had zero problems since.
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Hello Guys,
U dont need a Governor on a 55 Engine. If u want the best Power out of it simply use a V-Curve on the throttle. I flew many years with nitro gov. But without the governor u have much more power in hard stops. Thats my experience with the Nitro Governors.
Greetings from switzerland
Cheers chris
this is not recommended for a new nitro pilot. way to easy to overspeed the motor and damage it before you learn the ear for it. I still think a gov is better regardless, but I understand what one person likes, another may not.
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I think I will go with a sensor then! This is new territory for me! :)
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I run the magnets on the clutch bell with an Align pickup sensor. Flawless performance with a Spartan VX1n gyro.
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I'm going with the Futaba SBS-01RM and CGY750.
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Is there any one fuel filter preferred over another??? What diameter (I.D.) fuel line should I get?
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I've used the Align and the Thundertiger filters. I like them because they're a 3-way filter and don't require adding another tee in the line for fueling.
This is the fuel tubing I've been using:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-trucks/dubro-nitro-line-silicone-fuel-tubing-blue-1524cm-dub2243/p13009 (http://www.amainhobbies.com/rc-cars-trucks/dubro-nitro-line-silicone-fuel-tubing-blue-1524cm-dub2243/p13009)
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Thanks, Rodney!
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Had a fun conversation with Mike Dipalo the other night on fuel tubing and he purchased this:
http://www.amazon.com/White-SiliconeTubing-32-Wall-Length/dp/B000FMYW5W/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&dpID=31S8SXULnWL&dpPl=1&keywords=silicone%20tube%203%2F32&pi=SX200_QL40&psc=1&qid=1459288680&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1&th=1 (http://www.amazon.com/White-SiliconeTubing-32-Wall-Length/dp/B000FMYW5W/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&dpID=31S8SXULnWL&dpPl=1&keywords=silicone%20tube%203%2F32&pi=SX200_QL40&psc=1&qid=1459288680&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1&th=1)
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Just followed the link and it's not available in 3/32", which, to my understanding, seems to be the ID I need....am I incorrect on the size here?
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3/32nd is the closest you find in most commercially available IDs that matches around 2~2.5mm
7/32nd OD should bring up the line you're looking for. That and 3/32nd ID gives you a reasonable wall thickness.
7/32nd OD showed in stock as of 22:07.
3/32nd and an OD of 5/32nd would be fun for clunk line I think. Going to order some and try it. 1/32nd wall thickness.
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Thanks, Mike!
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mike, is this stuff clear, or solid white? its hard to tell from the pics.
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The picture sucks. There are some reviewer's photos that show what it looks like much more clearly.
The tube is mostly clear, with white fog to it. You can easily see fuel inside it. If you've ever used the fuel line that comes from Thunder Tiger, it's basically that (and probably comes from the same place.)
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got ya. thanks!
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Chris, is this the Xpert servo you are using for your throttle? Is it a direct fit like the Futaba 9650? Thanks!
http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html (http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html)
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Chris, is this the Xpert servo you are using for your throttle? Is it a direct fit like the Futaba 9650? Thanks!
http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html (http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html)
Yep! There are cheaper options but a quality, fast throttle servo will help the gov perform.
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Chris, is this the Xpert servo you are using for your throttle? Is it a direct fit like the Futaba 9650? Thanks!
http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html (http://www.helidirect.com/helicopters/electronics/servos/xpert-mm-3301-hv-full-aluminum-mini-size-servo.html)
Yep! There are cheaper options but a quality, fast throttle servo will help the gov perform.
Great! I want quality not cheap/inexpensive. It's just not worth it. Thanks!
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My first deal fell through and I need to reorder a pipe. What pipe are you guys using on the OS55 HZ-R. As mentioned, I'm a new nitro pilot and my flying style is sport with improving collective management. I do loops, rolls, etc. but no 3D....yet. I'de like to get something that is easy to tune but provides enough power to grow. Suggestions??? Advice???
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I have a Funtech on mine. Hatori on my n7. Both are great.
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Hatori SAB-1
60NS-3D
Helicopter Tuned muffler for 3D YS56SR-YS60SR
OS55HZ.HZ-
best all around pipe for the .55-60, period.
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I started with a Hatori SAB-1 and after a crash that destroyed it, I bought a Funtech B320 and really like it. It's been replaced by a newer version:
https://www.rcjapan.net/funtech-muff...4gl95ss79idpe5 (https://www.rcjapan.net/funtech-muff...4gl95ss79idpe5)
That's $73 US dollars + shipping, which has always been really reasonable every time I've ordered from them.
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What's their shipping usually cost?
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I just looked at my past orders and the shipping was $15, or less. When you order, you put your stuff in the cart and start checking out. They'll send you an email with the total, including shipping, and then you can complete your order. Google will convert Japanese Yen to US dollars so you can see how much the order is going to be.
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I have both the Hatori and Power Boost pipes for my .55 HZ/N5c. I am needing to install new bearings for this season and might just try the PB pipe to see if it makes more power or less than the Hatori. This weekend will tell the tale... ;D
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I've got a fun tech in great shape if you are interested. pM me.
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Thanks for the offer but I went ahead and ordered a Hatori SAB-1. I couldn't wait! Alan is shipping out the kit tomorrow and everything else should be here by next week.
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I'm trying to get a picture of what is typically used for Rx/FBL power setup? Do you guys use a regulator if using HV servos? It doesn't seem necessary other than to provide an on/off switch. I'm thinking about going with a 2S LiPo directly to the CGY750, a Perfect Regulators glow igniter and an Ultraguard for backup power. Any suggestions?
My only concern is one servo lead going from the LiPo to the CGY. I could make a lead to go from the LiPo to two servo leads into the CGY but that would be a point of failure that I would like to eliminate. I have a Grypon regulator that provides two leads out to the CGY, but, again, I'm trying to eliminate failure points. I would like to have a switch to turn off the CGY as well. I have the Futaba switch that came with my 18SZ.
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don't use a switch, no matter what brand, they all end up failing. the perfect regulator is the best option, bc when it fails, it fails on, not off...
for the n5c, one lead into the unit should be fine, I have run N7's like that before when doing testing, and flew them hard. BUT, you don't want to constantly put a connector on the unit and pull it off, you will wear down the plug, and the prongs in the unit.
what I do is make a harness with an EC3 at one end, and 2 servo leads at the other. all soldered together. I use about 4" of small braided wire, like is coming out of the RX pack originally, to solder the EC3 to, and then I convert to servo wire at that point (the largest servo wire you can find). you don't want to be pulling on the servo wire/braided wire joint a lot, it can break if so, so use enough braided wire that you never have to pull on it. I also take the EC3 that I put on the harness, and fill the back of it (where the wires are soldered into the bullets and stuck into the blue plastic) and fill that area with hot glue. that will help keep the wire/solder joint from being flexed around a bunch also.
by keeping it simple, you are eliminating failure points. I have a few backup guards, but I don't have them installed, I have only even had one instance where one would have helped me, and it wouldn't have saved me anyway really, just kept power to the servos until I hit the ground....not saying don't use it, by all means use it if you have it, just try to keep it as simple as possible.
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I run a Perfect Regulators Duo thingy with a remote glow adapter for the fire. I like them simple and clean without possible failure points.
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I like simple! :) Thanks guys!
I think I'll go ahead and use the Gryphon 5010 regulator with the pull pin switch since I already have it and it worked without issue on my other heli. The switch fails to the "on" position just like the Perfect Regulators Duo thing. :) That way alll I have to purchase is the Perfect Regulators glow igniter.
BTW, are hot start only something to worry about when doing autos?
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Hot starts are usually on initial starting the engine without a throttle hold set.
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Oh, okay, thanks! So, simple to mitigate following a good start up procedure. The first thing I do on my electrics is flip on TH after turning on the Tx. I thought it might have to do with a already hot engine/pre-ignition type of thing.
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The main thing to watch is that the servo direction is set right. This is where most hot starts come from. Thinking the engine is set at idle when in fact it is wide open begging to eat up the clutch liner.
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Thanks, Gabriel! I've put that on my preflight checklist.
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HI All
N5 and N5c are still my favourite Heli's since restarting flying 3 years ago and still keep picking them up every time I go to the field, they just fly so predictably and stable, they are quite big, considering they are a 600. Probably run both into the ground and need some serious maintenance as the weather in OZ QLD never really bad, so will have to take them to the bench shortly and do a complete rebuild, but I can testify to there crash resistance, and autorotation's are a breeze on these machine. I am sure you will not be disappointed.
Chris you mentioned the align starter is a jack hammer!! do you think the starter may have some detrimental impact on the clutch system?
Cheers
Paul
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Chris you mentioned the align starter is a jack hammer!! do you think the starter may have some detrimental impact on the clutch system?
Cheers
Paul
It's hard on the 6mm hex starter cup, one way bearings, and the pinch collar on the fan hub.
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I was blow'n clutches & starter shafts with it... Grab a Sullivan & a 4S pack.. U can start ur weed eater with it! Lol