Synergy Tech Support
Electronics Setup Information => Setup Info => Topic started by: Barry Tilson on January 29, 2013, 07:24:41 PM
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Setting up my first FBL unit the HC3-SX with my DX8. Thought I would start a thread for questions. I have a receiver pack for the set up. Will be bypassing my Kontronik 120 HV Jive leaving it out for set up. Had to order new tape as this E7 is a used with 10 flights currently set up for Futaba. I have two DSMX satellites coming in.
Just removed the unit from the back plate and found that I should have ordered more tape? I had to mover it to the center to allow access for the satellites ports. I don't have the software set up yet.
First questions related to the satellites. With the dual Sat. install should I get and extension to take one of the Sats. closer to the front. Any recommendations for there placement. Can the be inside or should the be mounted on the out side of the carbon frames?
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Granted I am not a Spektrum guy but I would imagine that placing the Sats at a 90 degree orientation to each other would increase diversity. Outside the frames would be advisable. I run the antenna wires from my Futaba receiver out the back below the tail tube. The antenna leads are at 90 degrees from each other.
I am sure one of the Spektrum folks will chime in.
Cheers
Alan
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Yes you want the Spektrum antennas 90 degrees from each other and also a quite few inches apart. In my case I have 7 inches between my AR7200BX and the satellite which is at the bottom of the frame.
Regards,
Brandon Bartolomucci
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Ok great!
Basically a shorter servo extension wouldn't hurt to have on hand.
Thank Barry
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Downloaded the software from Helicommand and installed it on my PC. Mostly use Mac computer doesn't look like there is an option unless you use windows on a MAC.
Soft ware installed fine. Has some trouble with the driver. Tried twice to activate the HC3-SX. Said no connection. Restarted the program with the Helicommand on this time and showed up connected.
Saved a copy of the current configuration to my PC.
Checked firmware for current version.
Took a look around the tabs.
Next step waiting for more mounting tape to remount it for clearance for the satellites.
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Sorry no Mac version :-(. I run windows 7 in bootcamp on my MacBook Air. Have to use that for Castle link anyway.
Cheers
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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How long does it take to set up boot camp? You have to own an outright copy correct?
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Not long. Use the bootcamp assistant. Yes you will need a valid windows license for the version you install. Be sure to allocate at least 30mb or so for the windows partition.
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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Ok got the HC3XS mounted and the Spectrum DSMX receivers plugged in.
How do you bind it? Is there a bind plug?
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Found the binding on page 5. Looks like its in the software.
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First off, buying boxed helis gets you into the hobby but spoils you a bit! Went through the setup wizard which worked well. Everything is up and moving in the correct direction and centers set up. Very cool!!
The radio was a little odd and this comes form downloading Blade programs. I have never set up a helicopter program from scratch. So the throttle hold and Flight mode setting were not there.
I may have to hit you guys up for some assistance with the radio set up.
I studied how the program for how the blade 450 used its throttle, pitch and hold setting and programed them in. Seems like my governor channel is moving all over the place not sure if I need a governor channel with the Kontronik 120 HV? Mode 4.
I set the radios flight mode(idle up) settings up to match Mr. Mels head speed calculator.
Using normal mode ending at 75% throttle. F1 set at 65%(2073 head speed) throttle strait across and F2 set at 75%(2198 Head speed) throttle strait across. Skipping the max governor setting of 85% at 2322 head speed. Seems to much for my skill level to worry with the last setting.
I programed the DX8 Knob for the head gain and the left trim for the tail gain. Still need to spend more time in the last few tabs in the Helicommand program. Between setting up the radio and the HC3SX was food for thought for one nights work.
Still need to figure out what switch will work the inflight bail out mode and realize that I may loose a gain channel to another this.
Next step for me is to go back and read up and go though everything again actually checking the mechanics for neutral and travel checks. Getting all the radio channels in the best configuration for the Helicommand.
Any advice would be appreciated!
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Isn't the governor mode the same this as the flight mode? Your selecting your idle up and depending on what throttle setting you input to the Kontronik will determine how this ESC governs? So I don't need a gov channel and reassign it to a switch for the bail out?
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You should not need a Channel for Gov.
You will need to give up your head gain channel when you setup up bailout.
Do test flights without bailout to get your optimal head (and tail) gain set. Then lock in that head gain number in the software and then setup the bailout. Bailout required mixing of channels in my futaba radio to get the desired result on a momentary toggle.
Not sure about the the DX8.
Cheers
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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Ok, second run on the programing accidentally erased my E7 model in the DX8! No big deal as in need the practice with the set up.
Went though the Helicommand setup again this time setting up the servos, swash and head for neutral. Went very well. As far as travels are concerned. Went with 12.0 deg pitch and 8 deg on the cyclic. Not sure what a good cyclic deflection is?
Noticed the travel in the radio didn't match the swash travel for cyclic. About half stick in any direction and the cyclic would be maxed out at 8 deg. Thinking that would have been a fun ride if not noticed. Seems that I needed to select FLB Stabilization instead of Acro in the ridge tab. Moving the Initial response slider to 10 allowing the cyclic servos to travel with the cyclic stick on the DX8.
Almost made a mistake adjusting the radio travels to try to get these cyclic and collective servos to move farther. Big mistake as this needs to be done in the mixer tab with the collective, aileron, elevator travel sliders.
Final check for proper stabilization found that the elevator incorrect. Had to go back and switch the radio and the program reverse servos to get this corrected.
Noting do with the throttle in the Helicommand. Must be pass though and controlled by the radios settings?
Saved my work this time.
Any other pitfalls for this set up would be great to know.
Thanks Barry
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Liking the tools! Couldn't Use the neutral hole in the swash leveler due to the lowered KDE Head.
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Barry.
If you set up your throw directions in the radio correctly per the diagnose tab you should need too go back and change any directions in the radio later.
Your setting in the rigid page should be ACRO! The swash will reach max throw before the stick does. That is normal.
Feel free to PM me and I will give you my phone number. I have set up four of these..
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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Pm'd you Barry.
Alan
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Thanks Alan for the info. I will make some more adjustments this weekend.
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Flew my E5 again. Flies great with the HC3-SX.
Alan
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Bastard! No fair! I still have a ways to go. Will spend some more time with main set up changes and tail set up. Been studying up on the DX8 settings and programing the Kontronik 120HV. Not in a rush but getting itchy for the my first maiden. Adding a Scorpion backup guard.
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+1 on the backup guard.
I just received a new ESC for the E5. Will be using a Jeti Mezon. 120amps with a 15a BEC! Just what the Dr ordered.
Hope to fly that combo this weekend if the weather holds.
Alan
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Maiden flight just completed!!! No crash!!! Even took a vid.
Very twitchy tail was all over the place. head was squirrely. There was a very noticeable head shake, guessing blade track?
Little dark and cold to mess track.
Dialed in tail and head gain and seemed to calm it down. Will try again tomorrow.
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Sounds like your head and tail gains needed increasing. Did you assign these so you can adjust from the radio? My head gain on the e7 is 93. A little aileron bobble at any headspeed below 1650. I run 1850 any have no issues.
Let me know if you any help.
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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Yes I bumped both up and it got more stable but didn't reach a point where it bobbled.
65% on the Kontronik with this set up is supposed to be 2050 rpm.
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Got rid of the head wobble buy adjusting blade track.
http://youtu.be/nIqHlfR9Yb4 (http://youtu.be/nIqHlfR9Yb4)
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Second flight today got rid of wobble with a blade track adjustment. Bumped my minimum head speed up to 55%@2000, 63%@2160, 70%@2325. Seems to like the 2150 range.
Should you have expo added when making gain adjustments? The tail seems odd like its not lock in. I will have to make sure the slider is working? May not be adjusting anything?
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In the video it looks like the tail is in rate mode
Are you fighting to keep the tail straight ?
Tommy
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No to keep straight works. Just seems to wash out or not lock in. Think I will check to see if the slider has moved it from its default setting. May not have set it up correctly.
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Hey Barry
What tail servo are you running?
Evidently there is at least one the HC doesn't like very well. The Savox HV tail. 1225 I think?
I have one and it works fine but that has been a reported issue.
Alan
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BLS251 on the tail servo.
Tell you it's way different to fly this
700 then a 450. I like it and it isn't even tuned yet.
Funny story checked over this heli when I bought it used with 10 flights on it. After the first flight I noticed the pitch servo horn screw was gone! The arm never fell off! This was the only screw I couldn't reach with out taking it apart and took a risk with not checking it. Bad idea not taking it completely apart.
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Third flight. Don't think the gain adjusters are working. Maybe the head gain. When you punch out the tail starts to wash out. Think I'm going to recheck
The tail rigging maybe need to get the 5 degrees neutral set up better.
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Barry
With the radio on and heli live what gain numbers are you showing on the diagnose page? Tail gain and head gyro channel? Is the tail gain indicator to the right in the green heading hold range?
Call if you need help. Just watching it rain and working on installing a HC3-SX red devil in the E7 and requiring for telemetry.
Alan
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Need to check it hooked up to the software. Life is busy so haven't been able to check it yet. will report soon.
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Fourth flight! Just flew it this time instead of fussing with the gains. It was great, handled awesome!
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Gain adjusters weren't working. Went though the Helicommand setup again now you can hear the servos changing in there noise levels. Not sure what changed? So the DX8 gains are talking to the HC3-SX. Will try another flight and see how it goes.
Sould you see the head and tail gain sliders change in the software when you click the read button? They seem to be at 50 for both? Even after moving them in the radio.
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I had a feeling your gains weren't being read from the radio!
You may see the gain sliders change when you hit read. Not a problem as they don't mean anything if the radio is controlling the gains. The only numbers that matter for now are the ones on the diagnose page. You have not set up captain rescue yet correct? When you set that up you WILL need to lock in the head gain number with the slider.
Alan
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Ok so the gains don't auto adjust the sliders in the software. I need to take what is shown in the diagnose page and input them to the tail and head gyro page. Thought it was real time. I will try another flight soon.
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Barry,
The sliders only mean anything if you are not using the radio to adjust the gains (Channels 5 and 7).
When you turn on captain rescue (bailout) you must give up channel 7 (head gain) and use it to activate the bailout. That is when you need to lock your head gain number in with the slider on the Rigid page.
There is no need to set the tail gyro gain default unless you start using channel 5 for real time tuning. THis can be left on the radio.
Alan
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Ok two more flights and the gains are working now. Very locked in.
Going to try some more as I didn't get the flutter in the head or be tail yet.
Flies great!!! Almost like slow motion.
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Awesome!
Alan
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Here is a video of the E7 HC3-SX on the DX8 gain adjusting. Got the head to wobble around 100% backed it down to 85%. The tail never fluttered even at 100% tried fwd flight and seem to hold just fine. Have it set around 80% now.
I will try the tail again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH8e-3ULt4Q&sns=em
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Pretty smooth flight. I never seen the head bobble you were talking about, but video can he hard to see those little movements. I am sure it was there if you seen it.
One thing I like to do to check tail gain before calling it perfect is to try some fast backward flight or even a tail slide if you think you can hold it should the tail blow out. Gain gets more important as you load the tail more.
Another note about bail out. Yes, the HCSX WILL correct orientation and attitude, but it cannot stop forward movement. Just be ready for that. If you hit bail out while travelling forward or aft, it will continue to travel that direction, just on a level plain rather than at the ground.
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Yeh it is hard to see. You can hear it and it started losing altitude. I'm going to leave the tail gain slider in place as I'm not ready for fast tail first flight. I will set up the bail out and continue with the set up and tuning.
Thanks for the advice on the direction of the bailout. Think I'm going to move my trainer button to better location to use with the bail out.
Love the way it flies!
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Ok i have set the manual head gain to 80% and left my tail gain setting in place for further adjustments as I'm not ready for fast backwards flight yet.
Setting up the HC3-SX bail out.
I changed the head gain channel from my radio adjuster know to my bind switch for the bail out. Adjusted the travels of the switch to be natural at 0 and when pressed it goes to -100%. Does that sound correct for the rigging?
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That should work Verify this by going to the diagnose page ot the software. You should see both the "Horiz. Stab" and "C. Pitch Action" lights go green.
Alan
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And the LED on the Unit should be flashing green.
Alan
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Yep found it and it is working in the diagnose page. Will try it soon.
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Got the bail out working! Very abrupt! Even had it inverted! Never had the 450 inverted only my 130x and MCPX.
Very excited to put some time in now. Still in one piece!
Thanks for everyone's help getting this set up.
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Note to self: HC3SX bail out doesn't work well inverted in normal mode! Had my normal mode set for 0,55,55,55 so I did have some throttle for inverted flight but not when you hit the bail out. It drives the throttle to zero! Luckily I flipped it back over and recovered.
Whew! Don't for get to idle up!
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I'm looking at different units now, how do you like the HC3SX?
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I like it a lot the bail out has saved me at least 20 crashes. I'm a nube so may not be the best to recommend it or give you an opinion of whether it flies good.
I would buy another one for my next heli.
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I like the bailout but all in all I prefer the feel of the CGY750. I am keeping two heli's equipped with the HC3-SX's for now. The N5C and my second E7. I lean on those two when I am trying to learn new things. That way when I do dumb thumb I have backup... The E5 has VBAR and SE has CGY750. I don't push it with those until I am comfortable with a maneuver. Well at least that is the theory. Didn't work so well last weekend on the SE. But then again I just had to fly it for the camera ;D
Cheers
Alan
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Just bought an ikon because of the 4th discount. Hope to know what it is like when I get things together in a couple of weeks.
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Updated my HC3sx to ver. 2 now the USB no connection window that normally shows yellow when connected says update software? I'm on 5.2 with the software? Any ideas? Trying to get this ready for IRCHA.
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Think I may have it trying to update to ver 2 again. May not have finished correctly?
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Looks like they are hide version 6 down the page a bit. Only works with version 2?
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Looks like they are hide version 6 down the page a bit. Only works with version 2?
Yes that is correct :)
You must also get the alternating light signal from the unit which confirms it is updating. It can be a bit tricky. The last one I updated took several attempts. If you have an issue with the update try closing the software. Unplug the dongle. Reboot the PC. Plug in the dongle and be sure it is recognized by windows. Then start the software.
If you have any further issues I can help you at IRCHA. I will be there Sunday PM through the following sunday.
Cheers
Alan
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Thanks got it. Will maiden in the morning! Cross thy fingers!
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Maiden plus three flight. Very smooth ready for IRCHA! Got rid of my tail twitch!