Synergy Tech Support
Synergy Nitro Helicopters => Synergy N5 / N5c => Topic started by: rimaarts on October 18, 2013, 03:21:05 PM
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so... my friend has all the time been bugging me to get a nitro helicopter (longer flight times, only one battery to charge, etc, etc)... today i noticed, i could get quite nice deal on synergy n5c flybarless belt kit...
and that it would take up to 62mm blades stock (why its still called n5, not n6??)
a) what is general concensus about this model? (i have read quite a bit about electric helis and still want e5, but i have 0 expirience or research done about nitro models)
b) all this talk about torque tube 'upgrade'... why? is it just some people like belt, some TT and usual belt vs TT pros and cons or is there something 'wrong' with belted nitro heli?
c) my biggest fear for getting into nitros is tuning... (i have had just a bit of expirience with petrol engine planes, but i never felt comfortable enough due to deadstick chance....) should i learn autos first before diving into nitros? (i know it sounds funny, but out of 5 real life autos, i have had only one 95% succesful...
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The N5C was my first nitro of any kind. It's really easy to work on. Mine is still a belt drive. There's definitely nothing wrong with the belt drive version, the torque tube drive will help with autos because there is less drag on the main shaft as you auto. I'm still pretty awful at autos but I have successfully auto'd mine several times when I've had to. I love the way it flies and it's been really reliable. As far as tuning, I have an OS55HZR in mine and it's been pretty easy to tune. I just started with the factory needle settings and then leaned it out a little bit from there. I'm probably run mine on the rich side but it still makes a lot of power and flies great.
As far as a first nitro kit, at least in my experience, it's a great place to start.
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A) Best nitro out there. Great power to weight ratio. Run the 55HZ or 55HZR and you will not have tuning problems. The 55HZ may be just a little less sensitive but like Rodney said. Keep it a little rich and you will love it.
B) TT versus belt. Almost as many pros and cons as Electric Versus Nitro ;D I started with the belt and added the the TT. Glad I did. Autos with the belt were okay but even better with the TT. Also you will notice a slight improvement in power due to the reduced drag as Rodney mentioned. Belts take crash damage better. I have broken belts though. The TT is easier to work on due to the need to either disassemble the tail box or remove the main shaft to remove the belt. On the TT just loosen two screws and pull the whole thing out.
C) Again the OS55's are very reliable and easy to tune.
Cheers
Alan
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I will have my N5C torque tube kit within the next month so as far as N5C models go I can't yet comment. I can however comment that my Synergy E7 is amazing! Everything works, there is no week link like a lot of other models have. All you do is fly it.
In N5C the 5 comes from the 50 size nitro motor, the new nitro 700 or N7 about to be released is that way because, Synergy many moons ago had already released an N9 and the two birds are COMPLETELY different.
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Thank you! I guess now all depends if stock lasts trough haloween! :) im sure i will have a lot of questions.. Later!
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You won't regret it buddy I promise you!
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doing some research about nitro tuning... lets say for os55 tuning... how much true is in this article?
http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=110979 (http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=110979)
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Hey Mr. Rimaarts,
I want to be fairly blunt here as to avoid any confusion.
First let me say I know how your feeling! This feeling is common. I started flying nitro about 12 months ago and was nervous, unsure, searching for information, and all for not. I started with a Os50 which came in a used heli built by a hobby master. The .50 ran great! I will say this and people who disagree will disagree but..... The three needle carb is a pain in the neck to tune if you have no idea. I had so many problems tuning the 3 needle carb I got rid of it. I replaced it with a 60L carbureator off of the Os.50 I had laying around and it has ran better than any nitro I have ever seen, imagined, dreamed, it propbably puts out more power than a whole lot of people thinks there great setup 3, 4, 50 needle carb put out.
The bottom line is KISS! I flew my .55 for 5 months with the 3 needle carb, in that span I blew 3 pistons replaced about 20 plugs replaced the bearing 3 times and dicked with the ridiculous 3 needle carb CONSTANTLY!!!!! Is it smoking enough, let me check the temp, can I touch the backplate for 8 and a half seconds, after pitch pump does it surround itself in smoke? ETC...........
If your a novice like you and I, we will notice that the fun is gone when we live the above paragraph. As far as how many needles the carb has? Hell no. I put the Os .50 60L carb on my Os55hz motor in 2 minutes, no special tools or parts to buy its a direct bolt on. Since I started using the 60L carb on my .55 I have flown 14 gallons and tuned the engine initially (3 tanks) and had about 60 hours of fun flying. That's what its all about isn't it.
PS fortunately Used Os .50 hypers are a dime a dozen. Check out helifreaks and look for a Os 50 hyper with a blown piston, I bet the person selling it will part with the entire engine for the price it costs to ship. And since the carburetor doesn't blow with the engine Baam there it is, order yourself a brand new OS .55 hyper take the new OEM carb off, throw it away and put the used one on. This is a honest and true account of factual real world recent account from a fairly savvy modeler like yourself who is only hoping that he had to go through that so that he could enlighten others and save them a good bit of money and a truckload of frustration and grief.
Jon M
My setup
Os 55hz
Os 50 60L carb
Traxxas onboard Temp gauge. $20
Boca Bearing Ceramic front and rear shielded bearings. $70 dollars on the 14th gallon and smooth 8)
VP Powermaster 30% Helimix $140 for 6 gallons delivered
Boxxer Electric fuel pump. Purchased used for $25 dollars powered by electric drill battery
Dewalt 20volt cordless drill (starting equipment) purchased by my boss for ? doubles as a Cordless drill
Switch GloPro (absolute must have for many reasons!) $70
OS#8 plug $6
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Rimaarts,
Let me start off by saying welcome to the forum, I must interject a bit regarding the OS 55hz, My opinion is the OS 55 is one of the most popular engines in the Nitro 600 class. I am a Veteran Synergy Team Member an I can say a majority of the Team flies this motor without any issues what so ever. The majority of problems I have seen throughout this hobby revolves around lack of knowledge. You are definitely going to benefit by watching Smack Talk's video about tuning. I believe Nick Maxwell has one as well. It comes with understanding the theory of how it works. For me there is nothing wrong with going and buying an OS55 Hz or HZR and running it like you stoll it. I have run an OS 55 stock in one of my helicopters for 30 gallons and never had an issue. I took a break from OS about 2 years ago wanting to just try something new, I remember Matt busting my B's cause I went to YS . I ran those and never had an issue except for the Damn YS120. I hate it because I can't seem to wrap my head around it. However there are guys that swear by it and absolutely love it, My friend Tim Jones . I ended up swapping back and invested in the OS 105 and haven't looked back. Matt was right needless to say. OS is one smooth running engine Bone Stock and a Stock OS 55 with stock carb is quite frankly one of the easiest engines to tune out there. Pay close attention to the motor when you start the breaking procedure. Theses motor are very good at telling you what they want if you listen and watch. Tuning is an art but an art that everyone can learn. Do your homework , don't be scared to ask questions. "Just pay close attention who you ask" :) pay attention to the weather and field elevation. Good luck brother. Also in closing Fuel plays an important part in performance and tunability. 30% is the way to go. And I run the Bearing Mod in mine and she runs smooth as silk. Good luck and welcome to nitro.. Just wait till the N7 comes out :)
Best Regards,
Kevin
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Agree with Kevin wholeheartedly.
Mine runs great. Many a gallon through it in the last year and no problems. Original bearings. Two glow plugs.
The smacktalk video is very helpful +1!
I do recommend the Hatori SAB-55 pipe. I had tried the fun tech but the Hatori does give a little more power and smoother transitions...IMHO
I don't see any reason to replace the stock carb on the 55HZ or HZR.
Cheers
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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thank you for taking time to answer me.. :) but i would feel much better knowing if that article would be helpful for the first time tuner, so i can make myself a checklist first time out, like do that, listen to that...
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As Kevin stated already... Your best bet is going to be download the SmackTalk instructional video on Tuning. That way you can "hear" what to listen for.
What engine are you planning on using? The link which I briefly glanced at was for an O.S. 50.
PS. I use an O.S. 55 HZ-R (Stock Carb) with an Hatori pipe. Easy if you will on the tuning... And consistent.
Mark
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what i meant, isn't tuning principles generally the same for all os engines/ys engines/ glow in general?
fast lad, where i usually get 90% of my heli stuff has OS MAX 55HZ Hyper and OS MAX 55HZ-R so most likely choice will be OS 55hz (non-regulated)...
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Non-regulated works great I used one for a couple years and even with a couple/few lean runs it ran like a champ! Very forgiving motor!
I run the belt due to lower reapir cost..but the TT def reduces drag as Alan mentioned!
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what i meant, isn't tuning principles generally the same for all os engines/ys engines/ glow in general?
fast lad, where i usually get 90% of my heli stuff has OS MAX 55HZ Hyper and OS MAX 55HZ-R so most likely choice will be OS 55hz (non-regulated)...
Yes the principles are the same except an the added step of tuning the mid range on a three needle carb.
Cheers
Alan
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FWIW... I had the Hatori SAB-55 pipe on mine and it got destroyed in a crash. I ended up deciding to try a Funtech B323 and I really like it, a lot. I'm not saying I didn't like the Hatori, I'm just saying that IMHO the Funtech B323 is a great alternative.
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FWIW... I had the Hatori SAB-55 pipe on mine and it got destroyed in a crash. I ended up deciding to try a Funtech B323 and I really like it, a lot. I'm not saying I didn't like the Hatori, I'm just saying that IMHO the Funtech B323 is a great alternative.
I had the opposite experience. Crashed the Funtech and replaced it with the Hatori.
Maybe post crash we are just so excited to get it back in the air that any change makes things better ;D
I guess crashes can be a good thing :-\
Cheers
Alan
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Did you have the B323 or was it the A395 or B320?
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B320
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Maybe that's the difference? I have the B323. It's listed for use the the YS60 but I had seen some post recommending it for use with the OS55 so I figured I'd try something different. It wasn't that I disliked the Hatori, it was more the never-ending quest to buy new stuff. :D
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Yeah... I am using the Hatori SB-1 which was designed for the YS60 on my O.S. 55. Been extremely happy with this combination.
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all this talk about collective management and ease of bogging... actually how easy it is to bog lets say os55 or ys60?
i admit, im terrible on my left stick! :-[
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all this talk about collective management and ease of bogging... actually how easy it is to bog lets say os55 or ys60?
i admit, im terrible on my left stick! :-[
Its not hateful at all. My os55 hzr was my first nitro. Took about 2 minutes to adjust. Flying .50 nitros has taught me a to about collective management.
sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 2
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it was more the never-ending quest to buy new stuff. :D
I knew I couldn't be the only person on that awesome journey! Hence the reason I purchased the Hatori Sab-55 to replace the OS Powerboost 2. Actually the OS PB2 did have a small (almost noticeable) dent. I dig the Hatori but the Powerboost pipe has a great fastening system. I use a jam nut on the Hatori without problems though. Both are topnotch pipes.
That's just my opinion certainly all pipes on the market will work for all different tastes.
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This was from a post on heilfreak that Tim Jones did I couldn't find there but I saved it in my notes on my phone
"There are many different methods for tuning a Nitro Engine. Understand that certain flying styles demand "Tweaks" here and there. But the basic method of tuning is the same, for all engines with a 3 needle Carburetor. Most engine manufacturers have recommended factory settings to get the engine to run. Use these settings to start. But understand this is a broad recommendation. Where you fly, the fuel you run, the glow plug you use, headspeed, gear ratio, type of governor, pitch range, and pilot all effect the engines tune.
The method I've developed over the past 4 years of flying Nitro powered 3d-helicopters, is based on real life experience, and the practical application of the knowledge I gained along the way. This is just what works for me, and gets me consistent results. There are many view points, methods, and opinions on the subject. Smarter people than I could talk circles around me on the Theory of engine tuning. Theory is useful to grasp the concept of what we are trying to do, but it ultimatly comes down to the real world application of flying the helicopter. To me, above all, the end result is what counts, and what I strive for.
Quick note: It is absolutely vital to make certain both the Fuel system, and exhaust system are “tight” and leak free. We are attempting to Very very finely adjust an air/fuel mixture with a carburetor here. Any “un-metered” air being introduced to the engine outside of the carburetor, we can not control, and is going to cause erratic behavior. All of the tuning efforts we make will be nearly useless, if we have ANY leaks! The carburetor can only do its job if it has 100% control of the air/fuel mixture! I can not emphasize enough how important this is!
With that said, and before we get to turning any needles, We first need to understand the basic relationship of the 3 needle valves and what areas of "Throttle range" they effect:
The High end needle valve:
This controls the amount of fuel allowed at Wide open throttle.
The mid-range needle valve:
This controls the "Ramp" between the idle circuit and full throttle. It is adding fuel across this entire Range. As you progressively open the throttle barrel, this needle is adding fuel as needed. When the barrel reaches the full open position, the high end needle takes over completely. For these reasons the mid-range needle is often referred to as the “transition” needle. In order to get consistent power, these two needles need to “mesh” with one another. With the ultimate goal of giving the engine fuel, only when and where it needs it.
The Idle circuit controls just that, the mixture at idle.
Before we get to the practical application to the above theory, lets take some time to understand what we are looking for, when we say “Rich” or “Lean”
This is difficult to put into words so bare with me...This is much easier to demonstrate than explain through type:
“Rich”
Lots of thick/heavy smoke.
“Blubbering/unclean sound”
Raw Liguid fuel “spitting” out the exhaust pipe
The motor never seems to “get on the Pipe” or “clean up” and get out of the way of itself...
It struggles to RPM.
“Lean”
Inconsistent Thin smoke
Raspy, ping, ping, noise when under load
The engine will feel like its making great power, and then fall off and start to “sag” or “bog” once you put a consistent load on it.
The engine sounds sick/laboring really hard
Can produce over-reving high pitch type sound
Keeping that in mind. Here is my personal method, that I use on a day to day basis, in this specific order:
Remember to always tune Rich to Lean, not the other way around.
Tune the High end needle first:
Do something like a Full pitch Climb out/Big hurricanes/Full throttle loops/Full pitch FFF/ Anything that's full wide open throttle. To accurately test this, we need to “clean out” any residual fuel in the engine from an excessively Rich, or out of tune mid-range....this was illustrated in one of the videos. To do so, get the engine at Wide open throttle and keep it there for 10 seconds or so.
Start/Find Rich, Lean 2-3 clicks at a time until you find lean, Then Richen it back up 3 clicks. Don't be afraid to “find” lean, this will not harm the engine what so ever, just don't keep it there! Find it, then back off. But we have to find it in order to know where we are.
Once we've done the above the High end needle should be close.
Now Tune the mid-range needle:
Do something continuous, I prefer Elevator Tic tocs/Full cyclic flips.....Try and load it up and see how the engine responds. How it responds is going to determine what we do with the mid-range needle.
If the engine sounds like its "blubbering" and just doesn't sound clean and "on the pipe" its too Rich. If it goes into the maneuver kickin ass and then starts to fall off/lose power its too lean.
Again tune Rich to lean here. Find Rich, tune to find lean, then back off 2-3 clicks.
Once that's done, re-visit the high end adjustment. It should still be very close, minor 1-2 click adjustment to get it just right. Once satisfied with high end performance once more, the Engine should have a “baseline” tune. And the two main needle valves should be close to “synched”
Now we get to tune the idle mixture. The key here is to make sure the throttle barrel Is only open far enough to be on the “idle circuit” too far open and we are getting into the mid-range needle. And your hopes to get a consistent idle go out the window. Tune the idle just like you would the others. If the engine blubbers, and generally struggles to idle its too rich. If the idle surges up/down, is inconsistent and makes a sound like....bing..ba..bing...bing its too lean. Leave this needle at factory settings (generally 1 turn) until the rest of the engines range is tuned.
Here is where we can stop, and call it “good enough” This will get you a pretty happy engine that will satisfy most.
However, If your looking to get the very last edge of Power, one has to combine the above methods. Do continuous tic tocs, then immediately and without hesitation, go into wide open throttle type flight. If you “breathe” the engine between the transition from tic tocs to wide open throttle, the test becomes no good. This is pretty difficult to do! What your listening for here is how the engine responds through the transition into wide open throttle, if it stutters, then quickly picks up, the relationship between the two needles is too lean. If it blubbers, its too rich. You're also looking for a consistent, smooth smoke trail exiting the exhaust pipe. Along with “feeling” if the power curve is linear.
And remember on all the above, the “mid-range” needle is whats controlling this transition. The “high end” is simply controlling wide open throttle. Blend the “mid-range” transition into the “high end” mixture, not the other way around!
Its important to take this step by step and get the two needles “synched” If the two needles are not in line with one another, there is very little hope the engine will be happy throughout its range, and it will have “lean spots” across its power curve.
Tuning is an art. It can be frustrating to learn, and its unforgiving. But its quite satisfying when you finally get it right. I don't believe it can be taught. Rather learned through raw self experience. This “guide” should help get ya going the right direction. But ultimately its trial and error in order to learn it, and ultimately get it right. You have to tune for your abilities and flying style. My tune is not equal to your tune, or anyone elses. Each pilot needs to tune to their own specific setup and flying ability. They may not all be the same, but they can all be tuned well with the above method.
-Tim[/QUOTE]
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Awesome...thanks for posting that. I especially like the part where Tim says, "My tune is not equal to your tune, or anyone elses." LOL...truer words have never been spoken.
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actually instead of smack talk, i found finless bobs nitro 101... im SOO surprised that i have been trough his videos quite a bit, but did not notice it before... :-[
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actually instead of smack talk, i found finless bobs nitro 101... im SOO surprised that i have been trough his videos quite a bit, but did not notice it before... :-[
I was looking for that one yesterday to post a link. That's one of the ones I watched before I got my N5C. That's the one with Tim Jones, right? If so, it's pretty much the video form of that post that Tommy quoted.
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now just to pray that noone snags that last kit before haloween! and to decide on fuel... i have not read a lot of good about optipower or coolpower, so im thinking or rapicon, VP Powermaster...
what is difference between car fuel, boat fuel and air fuel??
if someone snags nitro kit, ill just get e5... anyway i have to buy either batteries, either all nitro gear...
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actually instead of smack talk, i found finless bobs nitro 101... im SOO surprised that i have been trough his videos quite a bit, but did not notice it before... :-[
I was looking for that one yesterday to post a link. That's one of the ones I watched before I got my N5C. That's the one with Tim Jones, right? If so, it's pretty much the video form of that post that Tommy quoted.
yes... that one! :)
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I have used VP Powermaster with great success. The difference between boat car and heli fuel is the amount of nitro-methane and the amount or percent of lubricant. I have bought a 6 gallon case of 30% Powermaster heli from amainhobbies for +/-$160 to my door here in NM. Anyway 6 gallon case to the usual 4 is what lured me in but the performance and long engine life is what kept me buying it. I figured I would share my thoughts, there are a lot of fuels and a lot of mixes out there, half the fun is figuring out which one you like best.
Jon M
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I've run Coolpower because I can get it locally and I've also run a couple of cases of Torco fuel and I've had really good luck with both. I bought the Torco because they don't charge shipping or hazmat fees. The price is about the same as what I can buy Coolpower for, locally, it's just a bit easier for me to have it shipped because the LHS that I can get fuel from is pretty far out of my way.
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Awesome...thanks for posting that. I especially like the part where Tim says, "My tune is not equal to your tune, or anyone elses." LOL...truer words have never been spoken
THIS is such a true statement, new folks, want their engine to sound like what they hear in videos or in person..I also to this day cant get a 55 to sound like Matts N5c w/o being un happy at some point through the tank start to finish. It really is an art form. I'm still learning it myself. If you sport fly your needle settings are going to be WAY different than someone who does hard 3D. With the heli under constant load doing 3D you'll have to be richer than a sport flyer... Trouble is when a sport flyer or even to take this a step further "someone new", gets the engine boarderline lean or tuned, as soon as they get into an oops situation they get really aggerssive on the sticks to save the heli. This may not be entirely true but Id say your going to end up passing over the safe zone of the tune and go lean..(correct me if Im wrong guys). I would say tune it where you still get great flight times but keep it rich so if you have to make up for a possible crash to save the heli you arent going into the red! Even sllightly rich the engine is still going to make great power. Boarderline lean the power decreases or gets lazy as previoulsy mentioned and at that point your overall HS is going to drop which is not going to do you any favors while the heli is rapidly heading toward its demise!
The SmackTalk vids are a great resource..I've used quite a few, well done! However, something to remember about the tuning video is it was either the first or one of the first videos they've done so that being said it lacked alot of indepth explanation IMO. I would hope that now that the nervousness of being in front of a camera and charging money for a product they would go back and re-release an updated version. The Tim Jones videos "tuning 101" with Finless was alot more helpful so definitely check that out if you havent. I watched those over and over to begin hearing what Tim was explaining.
Fuels--I've run CoolPower and RotorRage. CoolPower works just fine...but if I had to compare and be just picky I really feel like the RR because it seems to run cooler, runs cleaner (doesnt bronze the inside of the engine), and seems to have a tad more power. Trouble is I suffer the same fate most of us do and I cant get RR in my area...(I think HobbyTown here is beginning to carry it but wants $42 a gallon! YIKES!) It doesnt hurt that RR smells pretty nice too LOL, not that matters but..
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(I think HobbyTown here is beginning to carry it but wants $42 a gallon! YIKES!) It doesnt hurt that RR smells pretty nice too LOL, not that matters but..
Wow, that's crazy! Before reading your post, I had forgotten that I won a gallon of RotorRage at a fun fly and I did like it. I didn't look into buying any because I already had a couple of cases of Torco but, yeah, it seems like good stuff.
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Something to be noted..and please dont take this to the bank because maybe I twisted needles and forgot that I had. But IF memory serves..... I was running RR in the YS60sr and got it tuned Friday night at HeliExtravaganza and that was my last tank of it. I then had a gallon of CP Heli 30% that apparently is some new blend with low smoke. First tank of the day around 9-10 the YS went lean in the first quarter tank...thats odd! So, I dont know if theres a huge difference in the nitro/oil content but it was enough to make it go lean in a hover. At that point it was new fuel tubing and the motor and tubing only had 12 flights on it. So I'd like to think it wasnt because air was seeping in somewhere. Just a thought if you guys happen to get this low smoke coolpower. ...again maybe it was just me.
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I have been running CY Wildcat 30% in the N5C for over a year with good result. The engine runs like champ.
My 105 will be using RR15% initially since Tommy Whitaker had a case at a local event.
Cheers
Alan
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Here is something I have a love hate relationship with. The temperature of a os 55 or 50 when running under power should be around 210 to 220 degrees Fahrenheit. If you have telemetry then it will be easier. If you don't, and I don't you can use a temp gun. A sound piece of advice is try to measure the same exact spot on the head. With the temp gun its going to be really difficult to get an accurate reading, only a person with telemetry could tell you what the temp change is when going from running to on the ground. So if anybody knows this answer please fill me in.
What I have done lately is install a traxxas on board temp gauge($20) on the heli. The great thing about it is it will recall the extremes of the flight with a push of the button.
I don't recommend using temp to get to a final tune, rather a tool to ensure your not too lean on your quest to that final tune
Again please figure out what works best for you, this is only my opinion and should be treated as such.
Jon M
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You know this is an interesting topic (chapawolf), I heard once that while flying, telemetry would read a higher temp (above 220) than it would if you landed, got the blades stopped, turned the heli over and shoved a temp gun to the seam of the head and crankcase...sounds like minimal steps but there IS about 30secs of cooling before the temp gun hits the head... Is this right? ..and if you have telemetry what is the safe temp for operation while its still airbourne?
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This is a great source of information guys, but it's a shame its tied into this thread so others cannot find it if they were looking for help with tuning.
Would it be possible for a mod to copy and paste some of this thread and start a tuning thread with this and more info in it?
Keep it coming though, its all great reading and help.
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I have my N5C running at about 230 during the summer months. Per the telemetry.
Makes good smoke and is definitely not running lean. The temp sensor is at the base of the cylinder head.
Cheers
Alan
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Yes Kevin and Alan I think both of your are right on the money. I have heard a lot of people say 230 is the max, but I typically don't see a good clean run until 230 or even 250. I also know that it will take Excessivly more heat than 230 to stop a motor on one run. I think for somebody who is paranoid about being lean and doesn't have telemetry these numbers being kicked around are a good starting place.
Jon M
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Not paranoid. I have been using the same power settings for quite some time and my OS55 makes plenty of power. I do make minor high speed needle changes due to OAT.
Yes ONE lean run may not kill your motor but it will definitely shorten the lifespan.
So what temps are you seeing on your Nitros?
Cheers
Alan
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I personally dont have a telemetry radio, but I do tend to pocket my temp gauge just about every flight incase I hear the engine leaning out...because we all know that different days are different temps and further more morning to afternoon can change drastically especially in the south. You start out with a jacket and by the afternoon your in a long/short sleeve shirt.
That being said if your running 190-210 keep it there (not talking to my telemetry guys) ..If you are at 220 you better be on your game with collective mgmt. For example I saw a video of Nick Maxwell flying someones N5c and he said the high needle is lean so I'll just finish out the flight on the mid needle...CRAZY. I'm not that good I can assure you! LOL. But thats the difference...just keep at 200-210 max and leave it. At that point if your loading it up, chances are its you not the engine not being spot on tuned! :)
KevinM
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I am not tuning my engines based on the telemetry readings. Those are just reassurance that I am in fact not running too lean. I base my settings on performance, smoke and sound. Checking a temp either direct or via telemetry is just added insurance in my book.
Cheers
Alan
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Yes ONE lean run may not kill your motor but it will definitely shorten the lifespan.
There is one thing I'll say to this from experience....The OS55 I ran lean a good handful of times just kept going, no rough starts..didnt have to idle up to get it running and still pulled fairly well. But as Alan has mentioned and from what I could tell the lifespan dropped significantly. Id fly others 55's and could tell my 55 was BEAT! lol
...Darren prob took one look at my piston, ring and sleeve (gave him my 55) and said dang kevin..you got your mileage out of this engine! LOL
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I am not tuning my engines based on the telemetry readings. Those are just reassurance that I am in fact not running too lean. I base my settings on performance, smoke and sound. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) 2
This is what I wanted to convey but could not get the words out. I want to let you all know that I am in fact paranoid. I had a rough start in nitro and would love nothing more than to not blow up another piston because of temp. :-[
Jon M
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soo.... step one taken... :)
rjx cyclic servos ordered...
n5c belt kit ordered...nice!
got that kit for 350£ instead of usual 450£ (new with discount+haloveen discount), 3x servos 150£... :( most likely going to go with brain or IKON as fbl... (i REALLY wanted to try skookum black 720+gps, but as far as i know gps doesnt work with nitro vibes.... :-\... now that i think... i could pull brain off my protos 500 and get skookum for protos... ::))
still thinking about tail servo... most likely will get also rjx...(any better HV tail servos for around 100$?)
i want to get dynatron starter... i know its great for 90 helis... but how about 50? i think it comes with aeroplane starter cone... any aftermarket hex shafts you could suggest?
governor... i think ikon and brain governors are ok, no?? i need governor rpm sensor? anything plug and play with ikon/brain?
the more i watch tuning videos, the more i want that extra power of ys60... but most likely ill get os55...
rx batteries... is there any rx lipo wich comes with 2 jr plugs already on it??
so far, my money is done, and now im eagerly waiting for next month to get engine, starter and fbl...
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oh... almost forgot... :) since n5c is considered 'old-ish' kit, and new tt edition is coming out... after crash, i can get tt upgrade kit, shortened main shaft, e5 head, and i would be good to go in terms of parts availability for quite a while?
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oh... almost forgot... :) since n5c is considered 'old-ish' kit, and new tt edition is coming out... after crash, i can get tt upgrade kit, shortened main shaft, e5 head, and i would be good to go in terms of parts availability for quite a while?
TT or not, you are safe on parts for a while :)
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My unprofessional advice...
still thinking about tail servo... most likely will get also rjx.
talk to Chris Sexton I think he's trying these.
governor... i think ikon and brain governors are ok, no?? i need governor rpm sensor? anything plug and play with ikon/brain?
The ikon works great, I've flown it and it feels really good. As for the Gov I've heard its not the best but works. That said, I think it may be due to the adjustability of it so if you dont dial it in right..it doesnt work right..just may need to tinker with that a bit.
the more i watch tuning videos, the more i want that extra power of ys60... but most likely ill get os55
If you want a set it and forget it (for the day) engine go OS....I'm running the YS60 and it does have alot of power..still getting use to the learning curve of tuning..and btw it sounds way different when its lean..so if your use to OS, just remember that. I havent run it enough to make a recommendation but tuning is more finicky on the YS.
dynatron is a great starter, if you have the cash for it go with the dynatron that way you'll be prepared to pick up an N7 too............see what I did there? lol
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i want to get dynatron starter... i know its great for 90 helis... but how about 50? i think it comes with aeroplane starter cone... any aftermarket hex shafts you could suggest?
Great heli starter extension for the Dynatron is the Sullivan S613.
Mark
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i want to get dynatron starter... i know its great for 90 helis... but how about 50? i think it comes with aeroplane starter cone... any aftermarket hex shafts you could suggest?
Great heli starter extension for the Dynatron is the Sullivan S613.
Mark
shiiish... it costs nearly more than starter itself lol... :o
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I use a cordless drill with tremendous success. :)
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I think I paid $13 for the starter extension I use and it works great. It's something like this one:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/2_375_1493_410/products_id/9478/n/Thunder-Tiger-6mm-Hex-Starter-Extension (http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/2_375_1493_410/products_id/9478/n/Thunder-Tiger-6mm-Hex-Starter-Extension)
You just shove it right into the rubber cone in your starter.
On the FBL controller, I ran the SK540 on mine at first and it's governor is really good. Currently, I'm running the Futaba CGY-750, which also has a really good nitro gov.
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I now have the exact same setup as Mark. I was using a hobbico and a shaft similar to what Rodney mentioned. It worked okay. Mine was misplaced or walked off at Swarm so I bit the bullet and bought the Dynatron. Wow. What a difference. On the 91 the hobbico struggled. Not with the Dynatron. The Sullivan shift is also top notch and clamped right on the starter. Best investment you could make if you are serious about nitro. I am running the starter on a 5S 3300 pack using the bracket available from Ron Lund.
Cheers
Alan
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk...
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I'm not sure if mine's going to be up to the task of firing up my 105 when I get the N7 together. What's funny is that I don't even know what starter I really have because it doesn't have any stickers or markings on it, at all. I bought it about 20 years ago when I bought a 40-sized ARF trainer plank. The plank is still "ARF", sitting in my attic. When I bought my N5C, I remembered that I had a starter sitting around, somewhere. I found it, cut the alligator clip leads off of it and installed an EC5 connector. I'm running it on a 3S 3300mAh battery. It spins the crap out of my OS55, so I'm hoping it will spin the 105.
What's the big advantage of the Sullivan shift wand over the cheap ones?
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I have had the cheaper ones pop out of the rubber cone adapter. The Sullivan clamps on to the actual shaft eliminating the cone. Also I went through two of the cheaper ones last year. The one way bearings went out.
Cheers
Alan
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk...
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Mine is so cheap, it has no one-way bearing to go bad. I guess that was really my question... What is the owb for?
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Correct me if I am wrong here. The one way bearing on the starter enables the start shaft to spin freely once the engine starts and you release the trigger on the starter. This allows the engine to run and not be stalled. On that same note most birds already have a one way bearing built into the starter shaft, which makes the owb on the starter unnecessary. If Rodney doesn't have a problem then I am assuming the N5C has a owb built into the start shaft.
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Yes it does. My N9 does not.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk...
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The 12v hobbico wont turn over a 105 once the ring is seated. I went from 3s to 5s and eventually went with the align starter. The dynatron is where its at!
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Yep... Went through two Hobbico's in the past before Dynatron. Never looked back on that decision!
Cheers,
Mark
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Okay, the owb thing makes sense now, thanks! Sounds like I'm going to be buying a new starter soon, too. I'm pretty sure mine is a hobbico.
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Sullivan all day long in my book!!! Including the Wand, strong enough to crank a Tractor...
K
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yeah but for a guy not sure about nitro do dish out for most expensive starter, and after that the same amount for wand.... possibly ill get a cheapish wand, and if im decide to keep on nitro-ing, swap it for original...
anything wrong with using hitec 7235 for throttle servo?
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yeah but for a guy not sure about nitro do dish out for most expensive starter, and after that the same amount for wand.... possibly ill get a cheapish wand, and if im decide to keep on nitro-ing, swap it for original...
anything wrong with using hitec 7235 for throttle servo?
Absolutely nothing wrong with using a cordless drill all you need is the hex bit and boom. Assuming you have a cordless drill.
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I'm definitely into nitro for the long run but I think I'll just use the starter I have until it goes up in smoke or won't crank my 105. After that, however, I'm going to take your guys' advice and go with the Sullivan.
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sooo... received kit! WOOOOW!!! it just dwarfs my protos 500!!! is it actually normal 600 heli size? or synergy n5c is bigger than the rest? tailboom is 1.5 times longer than protos! i already dryfitted the frame so i can put on canopy and landing gear...so far only 2 things were less than i expected... 1. rods are quite poorly cut... (on 3 it was near impossible to thread ball links...(yeah i know about fbl rotors upgrade but still...) and seems that i also will have to correct canopy grommet holes... :) and either mispacking or im just not used to synergy packing style.. why would half of the frame spacers be with landing gear, half in a head package and 3 posts in another bag! oh and i found that i need to get another 5mm hex driver...:(
apart from that, i half a day couldnt stop playing with the kit! :)
one question... how free should owb be on main gear? lets say its dry fitted on a main shaft and i spin it while holding shaft... how much should it move?
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Late to the party, but another vote for the Sullivan starter. The Sullivan wand is nice but way overpriced. My old school Hirobo wand (w/o OWB) works just as well at a fraction of the price (I own both, actually).
If you happen to use Makita power tools, do yourself a favor and pickup the adapter. Great solution, very convenient and tidy. But a bit pricey compared to just strapping a pack to the starter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) 2
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Now the fun part begins, for sure!
Canopy holes are almost always drilled small and need to be reamed to the proper size. Try not to go too far because the grommets won't stay attached. I usually use a little bead of shoe goo to hold them on the canopy, too.
one question... how free should owb be on main gear? lets say its dry fitted on a main shaft and i spin it while holding shaft... how much should it move?
It won't spin a whole bunch without any weight attached to it.
oh and i found that i need to get another 5mm hex driver...:(
I'm guessing you mean 4mm if you're talking about needing a second driver for the main blade grip attachment to the head axle?
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Now the fun part begins, for sure!
Canopy holes are almost always drilled small and need to be reamed to the proper size. Try not to go too far because the grommets won't stay attached. I usually use a little bead of shoe goo to hold them on the canopy, too.
one question... how free should owb be on main gear? lets say its dry fitted on a main shaft and i spin it while holding shaft... how much should it move?
It won't spin a whole bunch without any weight attached to it.
oh and i found that i need to get another 5mm hex driver...:(
I'm guessing you mean 4mm if you're talking about needing a second driver for the main blade grip attachment to the head axle?
fun part will begin most likely at christmas or latest at february... :) (when i will finish gathering all the bits and pieces.. :)
thanks! its just my first so BIG heli and first with owb on main gear!
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so... tried disasembling head... stripped 2x cheap chineese hex drivers... ??? i have nice bondhus driver set, but unfortunately seems that i need to order another similar set... (and yeah, i did try applying heat to feathering shaft screw...)
dissasembled and relubed tail grips...:) i was afraid i would have to mess around with bearings, but they came out easy, but were not lubed, so that means i really need to dissasemble head...
ordered rjx tail servo, and since my triflow grease is finished, also a boto lube... :)
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If you want some quality hex drivers that you can really apply some torque with, get a set of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TITAN-EXTRA-LONG-ARM-METRIC-HEX-KEY-SET-12714-/281152551753?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item4175ff7b49 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/TITAN-EXTRA-LONG-ARM-METRIC-HEX-KEY-SET-12714-/281152551753?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item4175ff7b49)
These are a much better driver than Bondhus. Our field service guys used to go through a set of Bondhus drivers every couple of months. They've been using these Titan's for just over a year now and they're still in good shape.
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hmm.. thanks! ill order a set... :)
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hmm.. thanks! ill order a set... :)
so... im waiting for servos (rjx and hitec 7235 for throttle), big things left to buy is os55, hatori sab55 pipe, pushglow, flybarless and starter...
im starting to think about bits and pieces (most annoying part for a first nitro build)
how many filters do i need? one for carb-fuel tank, one for fuel bottle? im thinking lynx moas fuel magnet? (i read its too light and stays on top of fuel... anything to worry about? )
how about sullivan crap trap for fuel filter?
how about one way fuel valve? which is good one?
fuel line.... usual silicone line? hayes black neoprene line?
im not really keen on ordering overseas and my 2 shops (fast lad and modelhelicopters) doesnt have any nice stuff for nitros... (or i just dont know how to look for it or what is nice lol... ?)
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I use a lynx moas. It does kind of float in the middle of the tank when I first fill it up but I've never had any fuel pickup issues.
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im not really keen on ordering overseas and my 2 shops (fast lad and modelhelicopters) doesnt have any nice stuff for nitros... (or i just dont know how to look for it or what is nice lol... ?)
[/quote]
What stuff are you looking for? Midland helicopters and fast lad performance have everything you would need and some more, there is a search box on both websites.
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ok... i know what is search... :) but i dont want to buy a filter which might go bad in 5 flights...
ok... ill put something together...
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so... am i missing something? im looking for tail pushrod 78mm rods(107-078).. i have a bag with 2 ball links, 2 clear heat-shrink like tubes and 2 short rods... but those rods are only 30mm rods... what am i missing?
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The push rod in my kit is in with the boom. I hope you found it. Let us know if not I know somebody will promptly take care of you.
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Fuel filter- If you can stay away from the plastic inline, they tend to break and leak IMHO.
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so.. another question of mine... :) on a head block there is 3 holes... manual shows bottom hole used for jesus bolt... any reason not to use middle one? i would like to use top one but my main shaft is 0.5mm too long to use it in top hole... :( any reason not to shave that 0.5mm off main shaft?
p.s. i did not find those rods... they are cheap, ill just order new!
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Yes. You can use either the middle hole or the top one. I have run both. You will need shorter links. Adjust the the swash a little lower. As well as the follower block. Do be mindful of binding of the swash at max throws when lowering it.
I don't recall needing to shorten the main shaft though. Have you checked the bore in the head to be sure it's clean all the way in?
Cheers
Alan
Alan Butler
Team Synergy
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thank you! :)
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The tail push rod uses the 30mm rods not the 78mm rods. It is a typo.
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emmm...huh?? well anyway i plan to jb weld those 78mm rods in, and put around 5mm shrink wrap on top of carbon rod, and also with jb weld and shrink it... 30mm seems a bit small for 600 heli, no?
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hmm... i actually cant get one thought off my head lol... :) my n5c is not finished yet but im already thinking about a summer project... a 700-800 heli... is n5c more of usual 600 heli size, or is it like shortened 700?
would of course be nice to get different gearing for a 'stretch kit' (or os55 could not take 690 blades even geared for max head speed lets say 1700 instead of current 2100-2200?)
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Sounds like the Synergy N7 will be just the ticket then ;D
Cheers
Alan
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Check out the tips and tricks section, a lot of good information in there.
Page A23 - Manual says to use 78mm rods to assembly Tail Push Rod. This is incorrect, please use the included 30mm Rod. If 78mm Rods are used, you will no have enough rods to finish the head assembly.
http://synergyrchelicopters.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.0 (http://synergyrchelicopters.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.0)
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well.. i already got my 78mm rods... and made my tail pushrod around 10mm too long... :( so at least one bellcrank will not be 90* untill decide to swap out tail pushrod...
how much play should be in pinion to main gear?
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so guys.. 2 questions...
while spinning head by hand i noticed that tail belt goes to far right side, half way under support pulley... but when i spin the head other way, it returns to normal...
what could cause tail belt riding in very far right side of tail pinion? half way under support bearing (pulley?)? im guilty of tightening set screws with green loctite until they strip (after horror stories about pulley slipping and something) so i would like NOT to disassemble tail shaft/pulley/hub.... any other options to try to check before jumping on TT conversion kit? i wanted to put it after first crash, not before first flight lol... :-\
and i know and would want hatori sab-55... but what you guys think about 90$ NIB os powerboost 2?
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while spinning head by hand i noticed that tail belt goes to far right side, half way under support pulley... but when i spin the head other way, it returns to normal...
If the belt is riding down the center when you spin it the correct direction, it's all good. I seem to remember mine doing the same thing, but only when the head was spinning backwards.
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One thing to check is to make sure that the lock nut for the belt idler pulley is not over-tightened. I had seen my belt do that when I had the idler too tight.
That's a good price for that pipe. I don't have any first-hand experience with it but have read positive reviews. I have read that it's a re-badged Funtech B320. I'm running a Funtech B323 on mine and really like it.
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One thing to check is to make sure that the lock nut for the belt idler pulley is not over-tightened. I had seen my belt do that when I had the idler too tight.
That's a good price for that pipe. I don't have any first-hand experience with it but have read positive reviews. I have read that it's a re-badged Funtech B320. I'm running a Funtech B323 on mine and really like it.
thanks! :) i would prefer hatori,but since ralph gave me STELLAR deal for synergy e7se, and i want to get engine and pipe for my n5c... rest of december ill have to live from quick noodles... :D i was planning on bigger heli after i finish my n5c, but i just couldnt resist synergy e7se for under 700$
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so... got myself a set of rails.. :) 606 and 96mm... and got a headscratcher... my belted tail is spinning like a tt tail (rail lettering goes to inside, not outside...) i think i just twisted the belt other way, no? it is not NESSECARY to correct it, no? especially if after finishing 7se or after first crash i might put tt upgrade...
so i guess now its official! i need 4 more things to finish my n5c! pipe (hopfefully sab-55), fbl (most likely brain), fuel pump (dubro?) and couple galons of nitro (i think byron) ! :)
oh.. p.s. i had some metal shims which came in kit with tail blade screws... they fit perfect for 96mm blade spacing in tail grips, but seem kinda... small-ish (a tad smaller than grip area) is it ok to use them?
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Yes you twisted the belt the wrong way. You can leave it as is but I would go head and fix that...
Yes the blades washers you have are fine...
Cheers
Alan
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apart from possibly having to swap out/reverse some settings in fbl, why would you fix that?
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Why not??? All you need to do is rotate the tail box in the correct direction. Change your servo direction.
Personal preference. I would rather build the heli as designed... And yes the tail blades do rotate the other direction on the TT version. So what ever floats your boat..
Cheers
Alan
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guys.. i have been thinking... os 55hz-h has maximum practical rpm range of 17000 that gives max headspeed of 2000 (17000/8.5)... many posts here is that you guys run up to 1950 (or around 2000) headspeed... that makes me think... what is the point of governor in here if it does not have any overhead? i know castle governor needs around 300-400rpm headspeed...
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1950 is my idle1 headspeed and is rather low. 2150 is where she really comes alive.
Nitro governors don't need headroom in the same way electrics do. 17000rpm is where the engine makes max torque I believe. Setting a headspeed for slightly higher puts it in the power band when loaded heavily.
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O.S. actually states a max practical RPM of 20,000 which translates to around 2,350 RPM head speed. I have mine governed at 2,150 RPM head speed (17,850 engine RPM) in IU2. The engine will actually turn quite a bit more than 20,000 RPM if you just open it to WOT and let it run. I had entered the gear ratio incorrectly in my governor once and that thing was flat screaming. I tach'd the head speed and, if I remember correctly, it was turning at around 2,600 RPM (22,100 engine RPM).
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Thank god you were not lean!!
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O.S. actually states a max practical RPM of 20,000 which translates to around 2,350 RPM head speed. I have mine governed at 2,150 RPM head speed (17,850 engine RPM) in IU2. The engine will actually turn quite a bit more than 20,000 RPM if you just open it to WOT and let it run. I had entered the gear ratio incorrectly in my governor once and that thing was flat screaming. I tach'd the head speed and, if I remember correctly, it was turning at around 2,600 RPM (22,100 engine RPM).
20000 for os 55-hzr... 17000 for hz-h... (Unregulated...)
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They show almost identical specs, including rpm ranges.
http://www.osengines.com/engines-heli/osmg1957/index.html
http://www.osengines.com/engines-heli/osmg1955/index.html
Sent from my MotoX via Tapatalk2
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strange... fast lad shows different rpm ranges... but ok... thanks! :)
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That really is strange. You would think they would post the numbers straight from the OS site.
Sent from my MotoX via Tapatalk2
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well... anyway, best way to find what i like is to try... and i like my protos best on medium head speed (for comparison, if i like my protos 500 stretched on 2400, what should i aim for on n5c and 7se??)
im trying to find a hatori sab-55, but literally ANYWHERE i look they are out of stock.. maybe its discontinued??
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If you can find the Hatori SAB 1 pipe, it works extremely well with the os 55.
Mark
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well... anyway, best way to find what i like is to try... and i like my protos best on medium head speed (for comparison, if i like my protos 500 stretched on 2400, what should i aim for on n5c and 7se??)
im trying to find a hatori sab-55, but literally ANYWHERE i look they are out of stock.. maybe its discontinued??
Really like my Funtech B323.
If you're heart is set on the Hatori and you don't mind buying used, there's a guy selling a Hatori SAB-55 on Helifreak:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=583657 (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=583657)
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today was a chrstmas for me! came postman and brought me my os55 hz! :) it is SMALL!!! my second IC engine, first being os gt33, this seems small and light!
spent like 20 min wondering why my motor mount is such a poor fit... turns out that starter shaft can not only tilt engine forward-back, but also left-right... apologies for thinking so badly about this kit! :-D
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next step...
unpacked my hatori sab-55! any tips on sealing it? any tips of installing nipple? (os55hz is muffler-pressurised)... since i have heard about using somekind of epoxy as gasket sealant, what you think about jb-weld? and what about jb-welding that nipple?
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I would use jb weld on the nipple but be careful not to use too much.
As for the seal I have had great success with the provided metal gasket.
sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 2
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emm... provided metal gasket? was it supposed to come with n5c kit or my pipe? because in any case i dont remember having one with the kit, and it definetely did not come with the pipe....
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I just went and looked at it closer. It does appear mine has a cork gasket, sorry. Been a long time since I had to take the pipe off I guess.
I have heard several people use RTV to build their own. I will see if I can figure out where I got the cork gasket. I was thinking it came with my pipe but the listing on the SAB55 don't seem to show a gasket on any of the sites I see.
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I don't use any kind of gasket on mine.
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how would this gasket look like? http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/quick_exhaust_gaskets_50-55_size_h3250-p-10747.html (http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/quick_exhaust_gaskets_50-55_size_h3250-p-10747.html)
well, i would rather be safe than sorry! :)
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For sealing the pipe flange to engine flange I have used a microscope slide (the piece of glass you put stuff on to look at) with some 800grit wet\dry sand paper super glued to it to sand both sides, then a really thin bead of the orange rtv high temp silicone on the engine side (I leave the silicone on for 20min before assembly). I always put the piston on TDC and block the port off when sanding. Anyway the gentleman that taught me this trick doesn't use any sealant and has claimed he has never had a leak. Jb weld on the nip for sure and let it set up before use. As far as the Sab 55 I use two nuts on the each bolt to ensure they don't loosen up, I haven't had any luck with glue or lock nuts but if you come across some metal self locking nuts those would be the way to go (I haven't looked for any since the jam nut works great for me).
This should all be viewed as opinion and not fact, I am only sharing my experience.
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well... anyway, best way to find what i like is to try... and i like my protos best on medium head speed (for comparison, if i like my protos 500 stretched on 2400, what should i aim for on n5c and 7se??)
im trying to find a hatori sab-55, but literally ANYWHERE i look they are out of stock.. maybe its discontinued??
Dunno if you're still looking for the SAB-55, but this one is the same it just has the Hatori model number instead of the US one. Will probably work out to a little over $100 to your door.
https://rcjapan.net/hatori-muffler-c-83_118/56ns-3d-front-head-for-53-56-engine-p-6226 (https://rcjapan.net/hatori-muffler-c-83_118/56ns-3d-front-head-for-53-56-engine-p-6226)
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i already snagged sab-55 from heli direct! FINALLY all the parts arrived here! only concern of mine is that i could have damaged my pushglo... :/ that tiny sd-card thingy you have to push in on top was SOOOOOO hard to get in... :/
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so... do you guys use something special to mount fbl (brain)? or default red 3m tape works? maybe 2 layers?
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so... do you guys use something special to mount fbl (brain)? or default red 3m tape works? maybe 2 layers?
I use two layers of 3M Gel tape mounted right to the top of the servo box. No issues with vibs at all.
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shiiish... today is NOT my day... :/ unpacked my sullivan starter... bolted on robbe shaft... and bent/cracked sullivan shaft...
in all the excitement,i did NOT think that if the sulivan threaded shaft diameter is a touch smaller than my starter shaft diameter, it will create MASSIVE vibes!
thankfully autoparts shop near me helped to fix it up... thing is that apart from swapping sullivan shaft out completely, im getting more vibes than i would like... namely we had to file shaft down after cutting and we filed a bit too much.. i still can hold it in my hand, and if i put my hand on the starter shaft end, vibes are NOT extreme, but still... any way to swap sullivan shaft out completely?
p.s. i just need to finish setting up throttle limits in brain, and after that im thinking to still go on with a test firing my os55 tomorrow, weather permitting...
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i have a very stupid question... on os55 carburetor, there is 3 markings... 9, 10.30 and 12 o'clock... am i right that 9 o'clock is fully closed and 12 is fully open?
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Correct the carb is fully open when the arm is all the way forward to the nose of the machine.
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well... that saved me new clutch... had to reverse throttle...
no luck with my 'maiden'... went out to start engine... clutch coupler(that thing you put starter shaft in) slipped... + was cranking engine with pinched fuel line +disconnected vent line... shiish talk about remembering new things... :)
went out second time... and best i could get is faint smoke trail from pipe...
so... im going to try explaining...
my throttle trim is so that on full bottom trim carburetor is closed completely...
both engine needles is 2 turns out and idle screw is neutral (as per manual)
i prime engine, pushglo on, and while its beeping try starting it... i get a very feint smoke trail which goes on even when pushglo beep is off for as long as starter is on... the moment starter is off, smoke ends...
i tried with neutral trim, full trim and even throttle stick raised a couple milimeters...
how much is safe to raise throttle before getting a hot start?
im thinking if my glow plug would be bad i would get no smoke at all, no?
2 things i did not check...
if im actually getting fuel to carburetor... (im using all black hayes fuel line..., but on the other hand, if the fuel would not get to carburetor, i would get no smoke, no?)
if im having any leaks...
i know its something i have done wrong, i just soooo hate looking for my mistakes when i barely understand what im doing lol...
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If you look at the carb. There are notches for bowl position. First notch is closed, then three notches for you half range and another notch for full open. My OS55 starts and idles with the throttle about 1/4 of the way to the first middle notch. On my TX its a Throttle value of about 10-13 depending on the TX/RX calibration. Takes more than a few clicks. Is the engine develops a deep cranking sound you have your throttle open too far.
Take a look at this video I show you were my Throttle bowl is at idle. Jump to 18m52s to see my throttle bowl range.
Team iKON - Nitro Gov Basic Setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYO4Upkrp8A#ws)
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ill watch your video once more! :) possibly its just dumb case of not giving enough throttle! thank you! tomorrow first thing ill try that!
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problem solved... it was pushglo fault... went to a friend, he tried remote glow ignitor, and there she went! purred like a kitten on idle! :) altough it was getting dark and i did not finish setting my throttle/pitch curves i could not hold myself back and took it up for a little hover! :) i was so excited i dont even remember was there anything wrong! :) just... its SO loud! im not sure i can fly it in near parks... :/
another 2 snags... i can not figure out how to activate bank switching on futaba r6303sb... :/ on my another rx i just activated aux 2, but there is no aux 2 on this rx... (i could bind it only in 'multi' mode, whatever that means! :) )
another snag is... the moment i press activate governor in brain, my throttle servo slows down to a crawl...
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I run banks in 6303 rxs on all my birds. Multi mode is correct. Just go into functions and set aux2 to channel 7 and then pick a switch.
As for the gov servo being sloe that is because its looking for rpm change. When the engine is running it will react normally.
sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 2
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dooh... futaba is too complicated lol! thanks for telling me that not only i can assign function to switch, but also function to channel lol!
hmm... i figured it might be so about slow servo, only governor experience i have had is with castle esc, and there is no throttle servo there! :) thanks!
so far i tried setting 1550, 1750 and 2050 headspeeds... i know there is too much difference between them but on my protos i like to have 1 very low headspeed, 1 very high and 1 in the middle...
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so.... today was a very frustrating day, but finally n5c was airborne for more than 10 seconds! :)
first i went to the field just to find out that my glow driver is discharged (pushglo was faulty also)
second time arriving at the field, my starter battery was nicely left at home charging...
third time, upon starting i got a soft hotstart (clutch was grabbing, but enough time to lower throttle trim)..
as strange as it seemed to me, as soon as heli left the ground, i was instantly comfortable with a tail in hover! (field was too small for circles and turning)... did couple climbouts, tested headspeeds (i dont hear THT much difference between 1550 and 2050, so i think something is wrong with gov?) hit throttle hold 2' off the ground, hang time is incredible... but when heli landed, idle was very high(around 1rep per second).
turns out i couldnt touch exaust or backplate for longer than a second (i think it was way too lean).
another outing... my remote glow driver was not glowing...
both needles was 1.5 turns
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Just for clarification, you don't want to be touching the muffler on a nitro. That's a quick way to give yourself a nice burn. As for checking the backplate temperature, did you do this while the motor was running or after you had shut it down? You'll want to do it with motor running if you can as once the motor stops, the cooling effects of the oil in the fuel and the air from the fan will no longer be available and the motor will be hotter to the touch than it is during normal flight.
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+1 Kinger. I would also tell you that if your breaking in the motor turn the gov off for the first at least gallon or so. Gov's will mask problems its better to get the mix right. A good trick is to take off and clean the motor, then set it back down and pinch the hose off. The engine should continue to idle for several seconds before increasing rpm and dying. If it doesn't your way too lean.
Switchglo is pretty reliable, did you set the dip switches? is it hooked to the receiver, does it beep when you power up your electronics? Lastly when you turn it on it should beep the entire time if you have the buzzer switch set right.
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pushglo (not pushglo pro) did beep continously. well, im asuming its not working because glowplug had just a tiny bit redd-ish glow with pusghlo and a very bright red glow with glo adapter... (and with glow adapter engine starts relatively easy, while pushglo best i could get is faint smoke trail from exaust... (i took the heli to my friend who is flying only nitro helis, so it is not just my opinion...
i actually ordered gryphon ignition booster (gryphon version of pushglo pro)..
ok, now when i see that gov was working, what throttle curve would you suggest for non governed flight? 70-80%
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It could be that the pushglo wasn't getting a really good ground.
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oh well, lets see how will be my luck with gryphon glow driver... :)i really need an onboard glow driver! every time i manage to get a flight on a heli, i allways forget to take off my (really small) remote glow driver and it discharges... :(
got another tank on this morning! whole 8 minutes of hovering+3 minutes idle! wow!
still i think engine does not suck fuel enough at the first start (i have to crank and crank and crank (on full throttle priming) to see fuel filling up a fuel filter)
this time needles was at 1.75 turns, and now it REALLY smoked! :) while hovering all ground was covered in smoke! landed, pinched fuel line and it took around 7 seconds to die. i think im good. cant wait to learn to properly start the engine so i can go to a BIG field to have some fun!
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so! i received my gryphon igniter, i was banging my head for 2 days trying to figure out futaba way of connecting it so i can have it on and off via switch! and today i had an eureka moment!
by the way, chris, at least in my case, setting aux2 on channel 8 did nothing...
what worked for me was to set aux2 on channel 7, assign switch, and that did it to switch banks.
and after i set aux1 to channel 8, plugged my gryphon igniter to aux channel to my brain fbl, set endpoints, and that seems to have done it! flip the switch, i get a beep, flip a switch, beep goes off! beep seemed to be strange so i will be testing it tomorrow a bit more!
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so! i received my gryphon igniter, i was banging my head for 2 days trying to figure out futaba way of connecting it so i can have it on and off via switch! and today i had an eureka moment!
by the way, chris, at least in my case, setting aux2 on channel 8 did nothing...
what worked for me was to set aux2 on channel 7, assign switch, and that did it to switch banks.
and after i set aux1 to channel 8, plugged my gryphon igniter to aux channel to my brain fbl, set endpoints, and that seems to have done it! flip the switch, i get a beep, flip a switch, beep goes off! beep seemed to be strange so i will be testing it tomorrow a bit more!
Shoot Typo! I meant 7 sorry!
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no worries, anyway your advice gave me the idea! :)
http://youtu.be/a8FEvjxZMI0 (http://youtu.be/a8FEvjxZMI0)
woohoo!! first time im doing something else but hover! i allways forget to take governor off! :( how does it look like? strange thing, is i just cant seem to be getting a loud blade fart! i guess that means rail 606 is very nice and stiff blades, no?
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and... another question of mine... how do i tighten pinion-main gear mesh? my mesh is so loose that if i hold the main gear i can move clutch bell forward-backward for around 2mm... or that is a normal mesh?
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so... a bit about my progress... i still have not finished my 3 galons trough n5c... finished first galon in a single weekend, than life and weather got in the way, so i couldnt fly for like 6 weeks... after that, i tried flying and kept bogging terribly... i was already thinking of selling it, but last week i noticed filter leaking... sealed filter with jb weld and got my power back! :) but now i think i have too much vibration... the lower the headspeed, the more my tail seems... unhappy! similar to smacktalk berts video where he demonstrates heli running tooo rich... my tail blades never touched ground (i think) and my mains... well, i had a light blade strike after a mini auto, where blades didnt even got bent in the grips, and another one where heli still landed on its feet... i just dont want to start swapping the parts just to find out something is wrong with the engine...
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I would start by replacing that fuel filter. If your JB weld repair gives out in flight you could very well ruin the engine with a lean run.
It does not sound like you are convinced the engine is running like it should? Again replacing that fuel filter would be a good place start.
Since the last run was 6 weeks ago you may very need to retune the engine for the current temp and conditions. Did you use after run oil? Depending on your fuel choice that may be something you want to consider if you are not flying it every week.
It does sound like you need to spend some time on the engine tuning before you look elsewhere for your tail issue.
Cheers
Alan
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I will replace that filter! jb weld was just a band aid to see if that was the problem...i think I already had 4 too lean flights on the engine (I still could keep my finger on backplate after heatsoaking, but it was really hot)... I thought to spend a day tomorrow retuning the engine at the field, but I managed to half burn the clutch today (forgot throttle hold once)... So another 2 weeks with no flying I guess...
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kinda dummy question but still... i dont want to pay nearly 40£ for a full clutch bell assembly so i want to attempt just a clutch liner replacement... which one is a good liner? how about n7 liner?