Synergy Tech Support
Synergy Electric Helicopters => Synergy E5 => Topic started by: anthony on October 10, 2015, 09:30:23 PM
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i'm trying to setup the head on the e5 and I have run into a small problem ( I think) if I use the measurements in the manual to set the pushrod lengths the head isn't straight , what I mean is in order to get zero pitch on the blades with 19.3mm long servo pushrods the blade holder ones are set to 32mm (4mm longer than written in the manual) and the follower arms are not straight, is there more than one length for the main shaft ? , I bought this as a used kit and it came with a new main shaft in a sealed bag but I don't know if its the right length, or do I have it in upside down( don't think it will go in upside down but I have to ask)
Anthony
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also measuring from top to bottom its 366 mm tall
Anthony
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I took the mainshaft out just to make sure its the right one , it measures 202mm , is that right?
Anthony
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I'll measure one when I get home.
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the kit I have came with turnbuckles , does that make a difference to the measurements?
Anthony
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My spare main shaft looks like it's pretty close to 200mm even. There are no longer main shafts for the E5, all stretches use the same shaft. The E7SE also uses the same main shaft. If you have the FBL Rotors turnbuckle links they should be pretty close to the same measurements as the factory links. If you have some other aftermarket turnbuckles then there may be differences in the measurements of the plastic links themselves. Although I'm not familiar with any other aftermarket links that would fit Synergy pivot balls.
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so my mainshaft is about 6mm too long , which would make sense , thank you for your time , I will have to get a replacement
Anthony
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don't know where 6mm came from , but I re measured and it is closer to 200 than 202. so is there a difference between the 550 head and the 700 head, the only difference I can see is from the swash to the blade grips everything else lines up correctly , but I definitely have to use 32 mm pushrods to get zero degrees at mid stick,
Anthony
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I don't wish to be a pain but I can't continue with my setup until I find out IF there is anything wrong , has anyone had to adjust their pushrods to get them to line up properly , am I being to anal about this part?
once I get past this what about the problem of there being too much movement from the swash for the cgy750.
do I need to redrill the servo horns , again has anyone else had to do this with the cgy or do I have something wrong
Anthony
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I don't have any personal experience with the CGY but a number of the guys here use them, so someone should chime in. If I were in your shoes I'd definitely ask the seller your questions since he should know that particular machine better that anyone. Sight unseen it's hard for us to say for sure what's going on. Of all my Synergy helis this isn't something I've run into before.
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I have e-mailed the seller to find out some history of this model , the thing is , it has gone together very well , everything fit perfectly and the finish is superb, its just the setting up that is causing me grief
Anthony
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Can you post some pictures of the main shaft and the head????
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Also pull the links out of the rods going from the servo to the swash they should be 43mm sometimes they get changed out for the 48mm ones
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here's a picture of the head setup
Anthony
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That looks about right. I don't think that the distance on the turn buckles is going to be the same as the stock ones. As long as you have equal throw and no binding you should be good. Also if your using a CGY make sure you change to the long balls on the swash to pitch links the CGY likes the long balls ( the same ones that go on the outside of the swash) make sure you grind them down a bit so it don't bind the swash.
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Tommy is no stranger to the CGY and there is a lot of us that do and or have run the CGY 750. In regards to the E5's that I have owned and set up, I can assure you if you set the Pitch Links along with the Cyclic to Servo Links per the manual. You will not be off. Like Tommy stated, I would honestly question the lengths of all turn buckles and make sure the lengths coincide with what the manual states. Also make sure that your CGY has been Completley reset ( not knowing if it is used or new of course). Based on looking at the picture you provided, all looks correct, unfortunately it does make it hard to accurately determine this since we can't physically measure the PC links or inspect the machine as a whole. I'm curious of the main shaft also and the length. I know this is a frustrating time for you Anthony but with the help of the Synergy Family, it will get sorted out for sure. *** you mentioned you installed the main shaft that was New in a Bag, do you have the part number on that very bag? We need to first make sure you did install the correct shaft. Once we establish that, let's move on to the next step. Again I apologize for your struggles, unfortunately buying used machines can lead to some issues, nature of the beast ! I have been through this as well and I have been building Synergy's for over 7 years. Let's inventory the parts in question, main shaft (correct?) PC Links and Cyclic Links are properly measured and reflect what is in the manual.
Best Regards,
Kevin
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Hi Anthony,
You've got a good setup there and once we get it sorted for you it is going to rock!
I have used the CGY750 on the E5 and as Tommy and Kevin has already mentioned the measurements in the manual should get you in the ball park for a good mechanical setup.
I also give a +1 for Tommy's recommendation for the use of the long balls on the swash for the pitch control links with the CGY750, it definately brings out the best in the CGY750.
The one thing i noticed from your picture is that you have turnbuckles and different ball links, the ball links look shorter than the standard Synergy ball links, this could be where your difference in measurements is occuring.
I am away from my E5 at the moment but when i get back i will measure the servo to swash links and the pitch control links ball center to ball center and this should give you a good base line for setting up the turnbuckles and gaining a good mechanical setup.
Hope this helps and let us know how you go.
Cheers,
Ross
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thank you , I will change them and see if that makes a difference , I have almost equal throws so I will go with that too
Anthony
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ok, thank you , that puts my mind at ease a little, do I need to change all four inner balls or just the ones that connect to the blades
Anthony
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Just the one going to the blades
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cool I will do that tonight and report back , and thank you again
Anthony
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Keep in mind that the measurements in the manual are for the Synergy links and rods. You are going to have different measurements if those are FBLRotors links. I know Ralph has all the measurements for using his links and turnbuckles but his are all from linkage hole to linkage hole, not end to end like in the manual. If the plastic linkages say FBL on them, you can email Ralph at Ralph@fblrotors.com and he can let you know what dimensions you should be seeing.
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I did ask that very question in another forum and was told that they were the same that's why I was panicking , it makes sense if they are shorter than the stock ones
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ok so I adjusted all the links and have equal movement on the swash , I lengthened the servo to swash and shortened the swash to blade grip each by about 2 mm , aileron and elevator look to be ok as far as setup( haven't actually got there yet) but the amount of collective is still a concern I have +- 14 degrees at 50% swash mix . what is the best way to reduce it , I usually fly with 11 to 12 degrees , and according to the cgy instructions I should be somewhere between 50% to 70% ( nearer 65% I think is optimum) the only way I can think of lowering the collective is to use servo endpoints but then I will lose resolution , or I could use a different pitch curve to bring the collective down , is there a better way of doing this?
Anthony
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ok ignore the last post , i'm an idiot ,. I just re watched david chekas videos and swash rate is the amount of cyclic pitch not collective as I have been thinking, doh!
Anthony
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don't know where 6mm came from , but I re measured and it is closer to 200 than 202. so is there a difference between the 550 head and the 700 head, the only difference I can see is from the swash to the blade grips everything else lines up correctly , but I definitely have to use 32 mm pushrods to get zero degrees at mid stick,
Anthony
The electric model shafts are both the same (Part 305-140), however the E5 head is actually positioned higher than the E7se head when mounted (aligned by the jesus bolt holes).
Late post, just providing insight to the differences between the head blocks if you're still interested. :)
See attached...
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With the long balls on the swash inner ring, the Synergy geometry fits the 750 very well. 65% sws rate yields static cyclic in the 10-11 degree range. Pit rate will fall in the mid 50's. REMEMBER that you should only measure cyclic rates in the sws rate screen in V1.4 firmware. The observed throw increases when you leave that screen but should NOT be used as the basis for set up.
Let me know if you need more detail in the gyro set up. Take time to read the set up notes I wrote in the manual, too.
Ben Minor
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hi ben
been a while , I got rid of the goblin 630 that this unit was on and got the synergy, much happier with the synergy, its my kind of heli . I will be using the forum posts from last time(run Ryder) to get into the ball park but I'm sure I will have more questions when I get confused again
Anthony
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Anthony,
It'll be way better with a Synergy because all the "numbers" fit the 750 sweet spot with the long balls on the inner ring. All you pretty much have to do is fine tune the D gain and ele compensation and set rates to taste. You won't have issues with funky wobbles and shudders.
Ben Minor