Synergy Tech Support
Synergy Nitro Helicopters => Synergy N5 / N5c => Topic started by: nick.m on January 01, 2013, 08:06:55 AM
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hi all..just going through my flybarless controller set up which is a sk540,,now i was watching a video on setting the tail and is says to set it at zero degrees but on here it says to give it 5 degrees offset,,so which do i go with
thx nic
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also how far out from the centre of the tail servo do you put the ball,,ive got mine 11mil but noticed i cant get full tail movement due to the rod from servo to bellcrank catching on the fan surround
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I would set it 5 degrees. It will work better there.
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You do want the 5 degree offset when the tail servo and control rods are all at 90 degrees.
If you set the tail limits right around where they should be, you'll just be a hair shy of hitting the fan shroud when giving full input on the tail.
You may also encounter the rod hitting your mixture needles on your engine carb, you'll want to slightly twist the carb body away from the rod and you'll have clearance just fine with that.
In regards to the distance mine is right around 11 mm from servo center to ball center & if you're using a Futaba star servo wheel I have mine one hole in from the furthest out.
Regards,
Brandon Bartolomucci
Sent from my iPhone
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ok thx for the info,,now the set up procedure for the sk540 says to get zero on the tail with everything at 90 and it will compensate for the tail,,when i move the pitch stick i also see the tail moving,,so now im stuck on which way to set it up lol
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Nick,
Your tail servo pivot ball should be at 16mm from center.
5 degrees will provide a much better performing tail.
Travel to the outside portion of the shaft should be maxed out.
Travel to the left should be left approximately 3-4mm from the bearing.
Check page A43 of the online manual for instructions on how to avoid the carb needles on the OS55. --> http://synergyrchelicopters.com/N5c_Manual_v3.2.pdf (http://synergyrchelicopters.com/N5c_Manual_v3.2.pdf)
The N5 came out before the OS55 so when the helicopter was first released, there wasn't any interference with the OS50 Hyper needles. The OS55HZ was released shortly after the N5 with a three needle carb.
Thanks,
Matt
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thx for the reply matt,,i was allways told tail servo ball 10-12 mill from centre but i will put it as you say :),,im sure the tail at 5 degrees offset works great but my flybarless software is asking for zero with everything at 90 so surely if the software is expecting zero but getting 5 degrees it will screw it up a little wont it
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Try it per the Skookum manual, if the tail feels soft around center then you can go back and make changes.
Thanks,
Matt
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Hi Nick,
I have never setup a Skookum FBL system personnally but generally the best setup for the tail is with 5 degree's of offset pitch to counter the torque of the main rotor, but in this instance i would agree to go with the recommendation of the Skookum manual.
Hope this helps,
Ross
SK 720 Tail Setup Wizard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_TJ-UvlYfI#ws)
SK 720 & Spektrum DX8 Setup Requirements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoI7H-bOjqM#ws)
SK 720 & Futaba 8FG Setup Requirements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KneOOUAP1VI#ws)
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thx for the reply ross but my problem now is that with the tail slider bellcrank at 90it looks like there is 5 degrees of pitch so if i set to zero pitch the bellcrank is far from 90 and i only have about 10 mil tarvel 1 way and about 30 mill the other or am i tataly missing something here
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i take it you just losed the 2 set screws and slide the shaft through
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b4 i take it all apart are teh flat spots on the shaft lone enough to allow for moving it
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Hi Nick,
When assembled there should be 5mm of the shaft protruding through past the bearing. This gives proper geometry for the tail assembly.
Check out the N5C Hints & Tips section for a good picture of setting the tail shaft.
http://synergyrchelicopters.com/forum/index.php?board=22.0 (http://synergyrchelicopters.com/forum/index.php?board=22.0)
The only thing you should really be adjusting is the length of the long tail control pushrod.
At neutral the servo arm should be 90 degrees or as you look it it, as close to vertical as you can get it. The middle bellcrank should be 90 degrees to the main mechanics, once these two are set the small linkage between the servo and middle bellcrank should be the perfect length when set per the manual and flush to the carbon tube.
Im not sure why the skookum requires the tail to be set at 0 degrees as this will make the tail servo work harder and the tail will also have a natural tendency to spin with the torque of the main rotor by not having the pre torque offset in the tail rotor system.
Hope this helps,
cheers,
Ross
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i understand that and thats how ive built the tail which looking at it gives me around 5 degress of pitch on the blades when the tail slider controll arm is at 90,,but as i need zero degrees pitch how do i achive this and keep the arm at 90 and my slider in the middle of the shaft,,,if i set blades to zero at the moment the arm is a long way from 90 and the pitch slider is only 10 mil away from the blades so not much travel this way and about 30 mil travel the othet way
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Hi Nick,
If you are trying to get 0 degrees on the tail rotor and also keep the arm at 90 degrees then i don't think it is possible. You will have to set it so there is offset in the bellcrank if you are setting it at 0 degrees.
You will be better off achieving this by adjusting both ends of the long tail on troll pushrod so that you maintain a sufficient ammount of threaded rod in the ball links.
Hope this helps,
Ross
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Hi Nick,
If you are trying to get 0 degrees on the tail rotor and also keep the arm at 90 degrees then i don't think it is possible. You will have to set it so there is offset in the bellcrank if you are setting it at 0 degrees.
You will be better off achieving this by adjusting both ends of the long tail on troll pushrod so that you maintain a sufficient ammount of threaded rod in the ball links.
Hope this helps,
Ross
Ross, I agree. The 5 degrees of pitch is built mechanically into the helicopter to compensate for rotor head torque. I don't think it is possible to achieve 90 degrees and 0 pitch. I can't understand how 5 degrees would negatively affect the FBL unit. Not having 5 degrees of pitch on the tail would mean that the tail servo would constantly be compensating for rotor torque. I have always built in 5 degrees of pitch as this has always been the standard when setting up a tail gyro in rate mode. No matter what happens head rotor torque has to be compensated for I would rather to it mechanically and have a truer flying machine.
Rich
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hi rich ,,yes i totaly agree with you but the fbl system wants 0 degrees as it does the compensating for you according to set up,,on the bench when i give the heili +or -pitch you can also see the tail moving,,,but setting the n5c tail to zero means the tail slider arm is far from 90,not much movement one way and lots the other way
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hi rich ,,yes i totaly agree with you but the fbl system wants 0 degrees as it does the compensating for you according to set up,,on the bench when i give the heili +or -pitch you can also see the tail moving,,,but setting the n5c tail to zero means the tail slider arm is far from 90,not much movement one way and lots the other way
Hello Nick, I understand that is what your FBL wants to see but, the servo still has to do the work. I have a hard time believing that your FBL would actually be affected by having 5 degrees of pitch built in. I have never used your FBL unit so I honestly don't know for sure. I'm sure that is the same reason why Matt and Ross gave the advise they did because they don't have experience with it either. At this point it seems you have two options. One, try it with 5 degrees of pitch (I seriously doubt it will be a problem). Two, get the manufacture on the phone and ask them what to do. I would be really surprised if someone else had not already asked this question. My question would be this " I have a helicopter that has 5 degrees of pitch built into the tail for rotor head torque compensation. I can't remove the compensation, will your FBL unit function properly with 5 degrees of pitch built in?" If the answer is yes (which I bet it will be), great then please let us know so that we may help others that ask this question. If the answer is no, my question would be how can I return this product?
Rich
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well just got off the phone to them and they said it doesnt really matter if you tell the sk540 its at zero and it isnt,,he sid to try and get it between the 2
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well just got off the phone to them and they said it doesnt really matter if you tell the sk540 its at zero and it isnt,,he sid to try and get it between the 2
Nick, I happy you worked it out. I didn't think it would make any difference.
Rich
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well just had a play with the tail settings and decided to try with the zero degrees pitch as it asks for and i still get 98% or the required travel on the side i was worried about,,so now im not sure weather i should try it like this or move it back to the 5 degrees offset
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Nick, if it were mine I would put the offset back in. As discussed before the rotor torque compensation has to be accounted for, I would rather it be accomplished mechanically and save the servo some work but, ultimately the decision is yours. I equate this to people using trim to correct the swash not being properly leveled on a fly-bar helicopter. Why use trim to correct a problem that can be corrected mechanically.
Rich
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ok rich i understand your point and will sleep on it lol,,got to wait a few days for my new exhaust any how so wont be flying it untill next weekend any how
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Nick, happy to help. :D
Rich
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Great to hear you got a response back from skookum on this, keep us updated on how things go.
Cheers,
Ross
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well at first i flew the heli as skookum recomended with 0 degrees pitch on the tail,,the tail did have a small twitch which im sure i could of dialed out but as i was breaking the motor in i wasnt to bothered and the heli flew fine,,so this weekend i set the tail back to its 5 degree offset,,now the tail was much better behaved and no twitch at all,,the only problem seems to be as the heli is on the floor as i increse throttle when the governor kicks in the tail kicks nearly a quarter circle to the right and then comes back to where it was