Synergy Tech Support
Synergy Electric Helicopters => Synergy E5 => Topic started by: NKY Heli Guy on December 21, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
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Hey guys I'm working on my head assembly and in the process of taking everything apart to locktight etc. I'm having a hell of a time taking off just one of the socket head bolts from the head axle. I've heated it to he'll and back and this thing is not budging. Is there a tool or method I'm missing to get this thing off? I've put it into a vice with rubber grippers, putting the other bolt in and tightening it down then quickly snap my wrist to see I'd the other side will give and nothing... WTH?
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http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/2_375_1498_377/products_id/204876/n/Chimp-Systems-Grippy-Duo-8-10mm-Shafts (http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/2_375_1498_377/products_id/204876/n/Chimp-Systems-Grippy-Duo-8-10mm-Shafts)
You need one of these :)
This will allow you to safely hold the feathering shaft while applying pressure to rotate. Many different brands. This Chimp is nice because it has 8mm and 10mm.
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Personally, on a new build, if I break one side loose I just leave the other side alone. The bolt obviously has been thread locked since you're having such a hard time getting it out.
The other solution is to get a 8mm "Grippy" tool which will hold the shaft without damaging it.
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The Chimp Systems Grippy tool is definitely a must have. Also go for the one that Chris linked as it is one of the originals out there.
Regards,
Brandon Bartolomucci
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Lol the video is awesome! Going to buy one now. Thanks :)
Do you think it would be ok to assemble exactly the way I took out? If one side is tight it should be good no?
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Thanks guys I picked up the nano o e as well. Damn this hobby is expensive... $50 here $50 there, oh well if I can someday fly like Matt it will be worth it :)
Would you all recommend red locktight? Now that I'll have tool to get it off might be nice to have extra security?
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I put red loctite on anything that can cause me to crash. Swash balls, grub screws, set screws, spindle bolts, pitch control arms on the grips, etc. It might suck to take it apart, but one of my heads has never blown apart in the air ;)
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With the quality Synergy has, would it be safe to say that if a bolt is insanely tight that it has sufficient locktite? Just saying; they're pros and may do a better job of locktiting things like that then I could. Obviously if its loose then add some, but if it is that tight, how necessary is it really to take it apart and add more to it? Just a philisophoical type question.
Other helis I have built though, I take everything apart. But those brands never really "aligned" well so I had to. The brand seems to "align" much better than the other company so would you trust the work done at manufacturing?
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I am finding this to be true, parts are tight and all back together. One thing I did find interesting in the build was when I took apart the swash follower arm assembly I ended up with 6- 106-301 M3 Shims, the manual only accounts for 4. Is this meant to be? If not I can't figure out where the other two go.
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Even if it's tight you should take it apart and do it yourself. Honestly even if you feel like you can't get it off with a wrench that doesn't mean that continued vibration couldn't pop it loose and remember the odds are against you that there is some amount of machine oil in there regardless that you'll want to clean off.
Regards,
Brandon Bartolomucci
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Follow up question. Is it necessary to use RED Loctite as the manual states? I have put together other electric helicopters, even a 700 size, and have never used Red Loctite. I am very concerned about the permanent nature of Red Loctite which would make future removal of screws much more challenging than Blue Loctite. I would like to learn the thoughts on use of Red Loctite from the more experienced pilots.
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Red loctite on the TT bearings, blue (242 or 243) on all else. I personally use JB Weld on the TT bearings.
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Actually, I was thinking of using bearing retainer (green) Loctite on the TT bearings. I am just wondering about Red Loctite in places like the TT ends (page 32), tail assembly (page 40) and servo horns (page 50). Once you use the Red Loctite, you are pretty committed to never taking those apart. I am not as worried with using Red Loctite in places like the auto hub bronze bushings (page 25), as I do not ever see me taking the auto hub apart.
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Follow up question. Is it necessary to use RED Loctite as the manual states? I have put together other electric helicopters, even a 700 size, and have never used Red Loctite. I am very concerned about the permanent nature of Red Loctite which would make future removal of screws much more challenging than Blue Loctite. I would like to learn the thoughts on use of Red Loctite from the more experienced pilots.
I use red Locktite on anything that if it were to come loose would cause injury to myself or others. Blade grip retaining bolts (head and tail), balls on the head, swash and tail. I also regularly replace nylock nuts if they have been removed several times. Yes, removing red Locktite requires more effort but, that is the idea. Safety should always be first IMHO. Get yourself a Green Grippy Duo (for 8mm & 10mm shafts) it makes life much easier for builds, repairs and maintenance that why it's listed in the "tools and supplies for E5 build thread".
Rich
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There are a number of places in the helicopter where a loose part could compromise safety. However, the manual calls for use of regular blue Loctite in these key important screws. These include the single pinion set crew (page 29), tail hub screws (page 37), single set screw that holds the tail hub to tail shaft (page 41), and feathering shaft screws (page 45). What is it about the other screws that the manual calls for red Loctite, and not the screws mentioned above? The pinion set screw is directly connected to the power source of vibrations. If the single M4x4 comes loose, you lose all tail authority. If the feathering shaft screws come loose, you have 2 CF projectiles. Why not use red Loctite in these places?
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Forgot the red on TT ends. Yes good point.
Blue loctite and proper torquing is all you need in other locations, including pinion setscrews and such. Although I do use Loctite 680 on motor support bearing.
These are personal preferences, of course.
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The Grippy wrenches are great, but in a pinch I've used the chuck of my drill on the end of the spindle shaft. No need to wrench it down too tight. It will hold it just right to allow you to loosen the bolt on the other end with your hex driver.
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Myself and a buddy both had one super tight spindle bolt.
Mine seemed to have rubber cement in place of thread lock, smelt and looked like it.
You can clamp the spindle in vise grips or a vise as long as you do it in the center of it's length.
If you do mess it up some it's not dire and you can clean it up with a file/sand paper.
After getting my stubborn bolt out I see there were a lot of metal shavings in the spindle from the thread cutting I assume. I guess it wasn't cleaned afterwards and the bolt threaded in. Vlad's was the same.
If you did neglect cleaning this bolt hole well the bolt tightens up before it bottoms out.
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I was going to clean all the screws, just wanted to see who had faith "lol" in the pre-manufactured stuff. I know they out things together great, but I always think what if.
In you all's opinion; which screw should receive RED locktite instead of blue?
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How hard is it to remove things that have been red locktightned :) I thought all you had to do was heat it up and it will loosen. Like with a soldering iron etc
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Not sure but I just ordered a grippy. I BETTER get good use out of it.
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I am finding this to be true, parts are tight and all back together. One thing I did find interesting in the build was when I took apart the swash follower arm assembly I ended up with 6- 106-301 M3 Shims, the manual only accounts for 4. Is this meant to be? If not I can't figure out where the other two go.
I put 2 each on follower arm side that clamps on headlock, it allows the arm to swing a bit more out, avoiding potential rubbing on block and it aligns better the links on the swash balls.
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I am finding this to be true, parts are tight and all back together. One thing I did find interesting in the build was when I took apart the swash follower arm assembly I ended up with 6- 106-301 M3 Shims, the manual only accounts for 4. Is this meant to be? If not I can't figure out where the other two go.
I put 2 each on follower arm side that clamps on headlock, it allows the arm to swing a bit more out, avoiding potential rubbing on block and it aligns better the links on the swash balls.
Thanks I was wondering where to put the other two, Ill do the same
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Not sure but I just ordered a grippy. I BETTER get good use out of it.
The first time you bend a main shaft ,head axle shaft or have to get those ends off the torque tube you will be happy that you have a grippy.
Rich
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Hello all
Same problem, the M5 bolts on my head axle are both unscrewable. I tried hard but nothing is coming. I will let it as it is but I fear the first crash that will force me to unscrew it !
;D
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Got my grippies today, got the nano one as well. Helidirect has them.. ordered them on Friday got them today, I love that store. Sorry to hear you are having the same problem, unfortunately the grippy seems like its the only tool out there that will safely take off the bolts. When I took mine off there was a heavy material on the threads. Try heating the hell out of the bolts with a soldering iron to loosen up the goo.
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I just went through cleaning all of the bolts on the head and swash then reapplying loctite. I used red on all of the balls and other parts, but didn't on the set screw on the head, used blue because I thought I might have to undo that at some point. I don't see myself ever removing the balls for a long time.
I cannot remove the blade grips. I have been torquing for almost 5 minutes and nothing. Turned the other way in case I did move it some, nothing. I am not going to risk damaging something like my new tools or stripping the screw inside so I will let it be. I think they used red loctite on that because other places they used blue loctite did not require as much effort to come free. I will keep an eye on it for each flight and probably check it each time to see if it has loosened. On to the tail rotor and tail box as far as cleaning and loctite. Probably won't get to the frame today which is unfortunate. Who knows, if my wife would get busy on something I might, but soon it will be dinner time and probably a movie or something...and take down Christmas stuff.
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I would watch where and how much you use the red loctite. I use blue on my link balls. You never know when you might have a tip over and have to change one. With red you might break the threads off I would only use red with threads that are bigger than 3mm and in a situation that the bolt keeps coming loose.
If it is a button head screw use a small amount of blue. The reason is the button heads are easily striped while trying to remove them.
A little practice with loctite will payoff. You can go to the Loctite web site and see how to use these tools.
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Good points. I used red in some of the places that Chris recommended, but not all over the helicopter. For the most part I used blue, but on the balls and where it says to use red in the manual that is what I used.
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Yeah Red can make life interesting. I personally use red in more places than most, but only because I have had some of these things fail and cause crashes.
Blue should be good enough if you get all of the debris and machine oil off the bolts first.
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Guys I have not tried it but can't you put a soldering iron on it to loosen red locktight up? Heat that is :)
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Yes in general heat will loosen things up for you. A soldering iron will be the most direct but warming with a heat gun would probably also work but may take longer.
Regards,
Brandon Bartolomucci
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Thank you, I thought that was true but just wanted to clarify.
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You need two "T" handled hex drivers of good quality and a little heat. They will pop loose!
Rich