New E7 build w/ BeastX

[mstlc03]

Does anyone here using a BeastX w/ their E7??  Having a heck of a time getting the right tail gain and getting it to hold during punch-outs.  It tends to kick-out...

[seldred]

I haven't used this fbl controller on my E7, but I have used it on a number of other set ups. What other equipment do you have in your E7. Tail servo, pinion, motor, esc....   

When you check your tail by doing a fast pirouette and abrupt stop what does your tail do?
When you move your tail left and right in the air very rapidly what does it do?
Also what are your gains set at?

-Steve

[mstlc03]

Hey Steve,

I'm running the ICE2 HV 120 ESC + Turnado A50-12L w/ 15 tooth pinion on 12S and headspeed is 2150.  For servos, I'm running 8717 cyclic and BLS251 tail using the star servo horn (last hole from center).  When doing fast piros, the tail will stop and snap very fast.  The tail does seem to hold pretty well in normal back and forth movements.

My gain settings on my tail is right at 95% but I have tried 100% as well and it behaves the same.  I've got tail pre-comp turned on the highest setting as well.  Also, I've tried Matt's governor settings for the Castle ESC (which he has his set for 2) and with those settings, the headspeed just didn't feel right, wasn't able keep up.

I am unsure where to tune with this combo?  Is it a gyro gain setting, governor gain setting or is it my tail belt too tight/loose???  Hoping for someone that has experience with this to give me a hand. 

[seldred]

95-100% gain is way higher than I have ever seen it run on a beastx... I have never had to run higher than 76% on any heli with that fbl controller. Nor have I had to turn the third pot more than a 2 or 3 clicks from center. 

Your tail bell crank assembly is at 90 deg with the control horn at 90 deg on the servo correct? (just making sure)

It is possible your belt is too loose. To check your tension :

1. Check the belt tension under the tail box near the tail bell crank.... not in the front! I don't run the bottom standoff so it is a little easier for me to check the tension. Checking the tension in the front will give you a false sense of tightness, the main pulley and front idlers are too close to get an accurate reading. If checked up front the belt tension will seem extremely tight.

2. With the battery in the helicopter(for weight), use your index finger to pressure on the bottom side of the belt. The weight of the helicopter should deflect the belt about half of the distance until contact with the other side of the belt.

3. Since everyone's batteries are different, a better indicator may be the amount of boom remaining past the last tail box boom clamp(assuming you are exactly flush with the front boom clamp. I've measured this distance and it is 4mm.

4. E7 Belt tension. I don't have an exact measurement on the E7 as my boom is a prototype boom which started as a much longer piece. I can tell you my E7 belt tension has a bit more deflection simply due to the extra belt length.


Another possibility that you might try is run the 14T pinion and change up your throttle curves and keep close to the same head speed. For instance, I am running a Jive 80hv, pyro 700-45L, 13T pinion at 2150 rpm and same tail servo (BLS 251 and I do not have any issues with my tail)


Let me know if any of this helps...
-Steve

[mstlc03]

Yes, my mechanical setup on the tail is pretty much setup per your suggestion, horn at 90 while bell crank is 90 against the boom.  I've actually had 14T in there at first but swapped it for 15T to get more headspeed.  I had tried 2200 before but decided to drop it back down to 2150.  I will swap it back to 14T but I can tell you the tail is doing the samething when I had the 14T as well.

I've did look at Matt's suggestion regarding belt tension on the E6 so I believe I'm pretty darn close to what you are describing.  I will double-check this though.

I really don't know what to say regarding my tail gyro gain.  I've cranked it to 105% on my X9303 and it still doesn't cause any wag.  So I'm not sure what's going on with this thing.

May I ask which FBL system you are running on your E7??  Also, which helis have you had your BeastX on before??

Thanks!
Bobby

[seldred]

This one has me thinkin a bit.... You def shouldn't have to have your gain that high at all...

I am using mini vbar on my E7, E6, and full size vbar on my N5c... I used the Micro beast on a mini protos, stretched mini protos, logo 400, Furion 6, and a Trex 700E v2... I had great success with this unit all all the helis I have used it on. 

How much of a tail kick are you getting when you climb out? Is it a small one or does it completely blow out?  I know there was some reports of a small tail kick using the jive controller.... My tail moves about an inch or so on straight climb outs, but it is rock solid through hurricanes and any tail first maneuvers even at full collective and full cyclic....

-Steve

[mstlc03]

I would say it's a minor kick-out, maybe 1.5-2 inches and this is after I dropped by collective pitch to +-11.5.

I will continue to tinker with this to see if there is anothing I can figure out.  I dropped the governor gain to 4 now but that still doesn't make a difference...not sure if maybe this just isn't a good combo to try, ICE2 & BeastX.

One other thing if you don't mind.  If I have a slow tail wag and increasing/decreasing the tail gain doesn't help, is this an indication of loose belt??  Or perhaps something else...

Thanks!!

[seldred]

That could be a number of things....

What are you using to mount your beastx, and how/ where is it mounted. Make sure you don't have any wires putting any tension on the fbl unit, that could cause some trouble. Also, do me a favor tomorrow and turn your gain down to 60% and make sure that pot #3 is at 0 or horizontal and tell me how it performs....

Another thing, make sure you have your tail center position pulse length set at 760 us and your tail frequency at 560hz.

[mstlc03]

The BeastX is mounted on top of the boom support block and using the tape that it shipped w/ (the one w/ the hole in the middle of the tape).  All wires are routed and have plenty of flex so there is no tension on the FBL unit.

I adjusted the gain down to 60% and also changed pot #3 to horizontal.  I flew it this morning and the tail was really mushy(??).  The stops were not precise and was very loose.  Also, it seems the slow wag was more pronouced with these settings.

After I dialed up the gain to 70% and moved pot #3 back to the middle, the tail gain more authority and the stops were more precise.  I also noticed if I pushed up the headspeed the wag was not as pronounced and ony showed up in certain manuvers.

I also checked the tail servo pulse length and frequency and they are exactly where they should be (per your suggestions).

Other ideas??

Thanks!!!

[Mitch Pricer]

One idea is the tape you are using for the Beastx. I am running the beast in my E6 without issue...the key is to run the 3M indoor/outdoor clear tape! You can get it at most hobby stores or even Walmart! Just run one layer of the 3M to mount the beast (no metal plates or any of that) and you shouldn't have tail issues anymore! I have heard previous stories of guys having this same problem while not running the 3M tape. Give it a try! 

Hope this helps!
-Mitch

[mikejr718]

The 3m tape is a must with the beastx. I dont have an e7(yet) but on my 700 I tried the tail precomp and found I did not like it. The tail seemed to hold sometimes during hard collective but usually moved in an unpredictable manner most times.  I have it turned off and have a solid tail.

[mstlc03]

Awesome!  I'm going to get the 3M tape and give this a shot.  Thank you guys!!

[Mitch Pricer]

Let us know if the tape solves your problem!

-Mitch

[QuantumPSI]

Just something else to look for...

Make sure your gain on the radio is actually adjusting the gain in the beastX.  I've ran into this problem myself.  I had the gyro menu activated but had it outputting to the wrong channel.  Was running 100% gain and no adjustment made any difference.  Check your servo monitor and make sure your gain is actually being adjusted.

Obvious I know, but can't hurt to check.

Also, what servo frequency are you running the BLS251?  If it's above 333Hz, you will see this problem, as well as if it's too low.  Make sure you aren't running 560Hz. 

Make sure that Parameter D is set to default (you can adjust it later if necessary).

Finally, try moving the control ball in one hole.

Hope this helps.