September 28, 2024, 03:18:57 PM

Author Topic: TT Noise  (Read 3051 times)

Offline Anthony Oxlade

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TT Noise
« on: August 02, 2012, 02:18:45 PM »
Hi Guys,

I just completed the conversion of my e7 to TT, and i'm doing some vibration tests on the bench with the blades off. I've noticed that the heli seems much louder now than it did with the belt drive. Has anyone else noticed the same?

thanks

Anthony
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8917HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, HW 120HV, Quasar 7075 BEC, Edge 693/115
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8717HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, Scorpion 130A, HV2 BEC, Rail 696/116

Offline RyanW

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2012, 04:11:31 PM »
Yes, I noticed the same thing. As long as the noise is constant (meaning you don't have tight and loose spots making the noise fluctuate) and there aren't any noticeable areas where there are issues with interference take it up in a hover. Usually a simple two or three minute hover will smooth everything out. That is what happened with mine and several other's machines.

Very smooth and quiet after the first flight.
-Ryan

Offline Anthony Oxlade

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2012, 04:55:38 PM »
Hi Ryan,

Thanks alot for the tips. I just spent an hour re-adjusting the spur gear mesh and checking the TT assembly. I used a folded paper shim to set the mesh this time and there are no tight spots. The noise however remained the same (as did the vbar vibration levels ~130 at 2350 rpm, ~90 @ 1900 rpm).

I will maiden it tomorrow and let you know. I hope mine smooths out like yours. I really liked the sound of the e7 on the belt drive!
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8917HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, HW 120HV, Quasar 7075 BEC, Edge 693/115
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8717HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, Scorpion 130A, HV2 BEC, Rail 696/116

Offline stevehof

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 05:28:01 PM »
I have two E7's. One is the quietest 700 TT at the field (less than 15 flights on this one) and the other has a LOT of what I'm guessing is gear noise (maybe 75 flights on the TT setup). I'm pretty sure it's due to the something in the gear mesh between the 54T TT spur gear and 12T driven gear. The noise has a pulsing quality like something is out of round. It surely never has diminished with use.

Near as I can tell there is no way to adjust the gear lash between these two gears and even after the 75 or so flights there still doesn't seem to be even a small amount of play between these two gears. I can't see any way to fix it other than replace the spur and the gears in the transmission and hope for the best. I do remember someone enlarging the holes for the tail trans and boom to allow those assemblies to back up a mm or so. Is this an OK thing to do? Any other suggestions?

Offline Anthony Oxlade

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 06:05:19 PM »
How loose is the mesh between the spur gears on your quiet e7? When I bench tested my e7 with two different mesh distances (one piece of paper and then two pieces) they both seemed equally loud.

Someone else posted a good tip to set the mesh between the spur gears using a piece of paper. There is enough play on the frame screw holes for the TT assembly and main bearing blocks to allow for this mesh adjustment.

When i assembled my TT conversion for the first time without adjustment, my spur gears had a tight mesh similar to what you described.
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8917HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, HW 120HV, Quasar 7075 BEC, Edge 693/115
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8717HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, Scorpion 130A, HV2 BEC, Rail 696/116

Offline stevehof

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 06:18:17 PM »
I don't have any problem with the main gear and motor pinion gear adjustment. And, as far as I can tell, that's the only actual gear mesh adjustment in the entire drive train. And even if the main gear is a bit 'out of round', setting the pinon to main gear lash correctly should eliminate most if not all 'out of round' type of gear noise for that gear mesh.

The mesh between 54T tail drive gear and 12T transmission gear is not adjustable and this mesh is where I 'think' my noise is coming from. All the the hardware mounting holes in the frame are round except for the motor mount and lower motor shaft support bearing block. While you can loosen everything else and try to bias the main shaft forward and the transmission and boom to the rear, they are mounted in round holes so there's really no place for them to go. If I am missing something obvious here, let me know...:^)

flyalan

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TT Noise
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 08:09:05 PM »
I elongated the holes at the transmission to allow a little adjustment of the mesh. I used a fine rat tail file to do so ever so gently.  Matt did not recommend this but my gears were too tight so I did it anyway.
I have about 16 flights on the E7 with no issues to date. I am considering converting my E6. Of course getting an E5 is tempting :-)


Alan Butler

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Offline Anthony Oxlade

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 01:20:17 AM »
You are right there is no adjustment built in to the frames for the 54T and 12T gears or the upper main shaft bearing blocks. However in my case there was enough clearance on the round holes to adjust the very tight mesh i had between the 54T and 12T. I was able to do this by loosening the main shaft bearing block and TT assembly screws and placing a paper shim between the spur gears whilst tightening them. I then re-set my motor mesh.
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8917HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, HW 120HV, Quasar 7075 BEC, Edge 693/115
Synergy E7 - 4525 Ultimate, 8717HV, HBL980, Vbar Silverline, Scorpion 130A, HV2 BEC, Rail 696/116

Offline stevehof

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Re: TT Noise
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 10:29:43 AM »
You are right there is no adjustment built in to the frames for the 54T and 12T gears or the upper main shaft bearing blocks. However in my case there was enough clearance on the round holes to adjust the very tight mesh i had between the 54T and 12T. I was able to do this by loosening the main shaft bearing block and TT assembly screws and placing a paper shim between the spur gears whilst tightening them. I then re-set my motor mesh.
However, you also noted in your previous post that the noise or vibration levels didn't change after your paper shim adjustment. I submit that this is because when you tightened up everything, despite the paper shim, the assemblies went back to where they originally were in relation to each other. The paper sometimes just gets crushed.

I know that the paper method works for some folks when you have real adjustment available. However, I don't think that method is the most accurate way to accomplish proper gear lash. You must always find the 'high spot' on the gear. Then, set lash there. Move the motor up until there is obviously no slop, firm but not jammed mesh. Next, rotate the main gear 45 degrees at a time to see if the mesh feels tighter or looser. You may have to back off the motor just a little. You will find the low spot as soon as you can feel a slight tick when gently rocking the main gear back and forth after moving the motor back a little at a time. the tick is because the teeth of the main gear and pinion have been moved apart just enough to not be tightly jammed together.

Usually, the HIGH spot is 180 degrees from the low spot. Move to the high spot and move the motor back just enough to feel the slightest gear tick when rotating the main gear back and forth. Now, rotate the main gear and see if it is tighter or looser at 45/90/180 degrees from your first adjustment. If tighter, you didn't make your adjustment at the 'high point' of the gear. It takes a bit of trial and error but if you do this correctly, the high side of the gear will be just a hair's width from being tight and the low side will have a bit more gear 'tick' or clearance when you rock the main gear back and forth.

Obviously, this method can't be used to adjust the mesh between the 54T and 12T. The only way this gear set mesh can be adjusted is by elongating some of the frame mounting holes. I think you'd have to elongate both the transmission mount holes and the forward boom clamp holes since the transmission is butted up against the forward boom clamp. Or, or you could face off the front of the forward boom clamp a few thousands of an inch and just elongate the transmission holes.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 10:33:32 AM by stevehof »

Offline stevehof

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my 'noise' fix
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 04:07:17 PM »
Turns out my 'noise' problem was the main gear and not the TT gears. After making my speech above about setting proper gear mesh, well, somewhere along the way, I didn't get it right or something shifted. The main gear was just a tad tight at the high spot.

Even more interesting was that there was 1/64 - 1/32 inch up/down play in the entire gear assembly. This play was caused by the hole in the main shaft being oversize. I put a new main shaft in and re-adjusted my pinion to main gear lash and this E7 is now as quiet as my other. There is no measurable vertical play in the gear set now.

I don't know how much the vertical play in the gear set was contributing to the pulsing noise I was hearing, which seemed to be worse when inverted. I always attributed the difference in sound volume to just the sound being reflected differently when inverted. Maybe it did have something to do with the vertical gear play. In any case, that's my story and I'm sticking to it... ::)