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Author Topic: Synergy Speed  (Read 2948 times)

Offline cml001

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Synergy Speed
« on: March 14, 2016, 11:14:09 PM »
Was curious what the speed guys where using in there set up and if you guys could pass along the ins & outs of speed setups. Equipment/electronics? KV & pinions? +/- pitch ranges? 12S or 14S? 696 or 716s? HS range? Roll rates? I know nothing about speed.. But curious.. Haven't found solid data on how it works within the machine itself or how the competition/judging works. How close is a speed set up to say fc3? Spill ur guts guys!
Clay
I can fly helicopters... Upside down!

Offline Chris Sexton

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 09:06:34 AM »
Hey man! Sorry for the delay, kept getting distracted :)

Synergy Speed, it rocks!



I have tried a few setups/frames over the years. This IRCHA will be my 5th entry into the speed cup :)

A lot of it I learned through trial and error, and even more I picked from the brains of the guys winning every year!

The first thing you need to decide is which class you want to run in. Do you want to take a 3D machine and run speed from time to time, or do you want to build a dedicated speed machine?

Electronics:
FBL: Not all FBL are created equal. While you can certainly run whatever FBL you want, some systems handle FFF better than others. I have had good success with BeastX, Demon, and iKON.  The NEO seems to handle speed well, but the other VBars weren't as good an option.

Servos: Don't go cheap here.  When you are holding full collective speeding down a run, the servos need to be strong and stable. 

ESC: 12s or 14s will be determined by your class choice, but go with an AMP rating as high as you can afford.  I have had GREAT success with Castle 160s and YGE(when 14s was needed). I have played with Kosmiks, but that gets expensive FAST.

Batteries: This is easily the first place people ignore.  I don't care what the label says, True C ratings are what matters. Check out this database Justin Pucci started and I have been contributing too. We have been testing our packs and posting actual C values.  You may be surprised how some of these 65c packs stack up.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AIUIP2CqVG1-BRT8LcMkXTEJ18Xj_pa50-6k16m8BC4/edit?usp=sharing

Motor: I am a scorpion guy, but there are many good options.  The 4530, 4535 and 5000 series motors are quickly taking over the speed scene.  The 4530-540 and a 15t pinion are my go to right now. I have been running my 716F3C blades GOVERNED at 2690 RPM.  It isn't holding that, but by gearing for it, I am holding 2500+ at 14 degrees of pitch on a 12s system. Amp loads have been holding under 160 with spikes above 200.  Not slamming into full collective helps with the spikes.

Over all setup:

Pitch: There is such a thing as too much pitch.  You should target higher head speed and start at 13 of so and work your way up. Find the point where your setup can't take anymore pitch without bogging too much.  yes there are guys out there running 16-17 degrees, but that doesn't make them necessarily faster.

Roll rate/responsiveness:  Remember, anytime you touch the cyclic in a pass, you are bleeding power.  By lower the agility/responsiveness, increasing EXPO, you are dampening the effects of your thumbs on the cyclic.  This heli doesn't need to flip and roll on a dime. Movements should be smooth and deliberate.  Adding expo and lowering over all rates will help smooth out your runs.

I have not done any FC3, so I can't tell you how close the setup is for that. But I can tell you, like FC3, you can have the perfect setup, if your technique is off, you won't be fast.  So much of this is about setting up the pass, holding a line, and turning around while maintaining speed. The equipment is important, but the pilot makes or breaks it, hands down.

I am sure I have left you with more questions than answers, but the reason it's so hard to get concrete information is there is nothing concrete :) There are plenty of wrong ways to do things, but so many approaches to going fast.

My setup for the 2016 IRCHA Speed Cup:

Synergy E5ss with E7se Speed conversion
Rail 716F3C mains 96 tails
4.0:1 tail ratio
YGE 160HV
NEO
Scorpion 4530-540KV
Servos Still undecided
Batteries undecided
Chris Sexton
Synergy Factory Specialist / Rail Blades / Team Scorpion

Offline cml001

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 10:16:45 AM »
That is a great response... Thank u! Bout how much expo do u use? Do u use the gov in the ESC or FBL unit? What is the average duration of the run in completion.... In reference to what capacity to use?
Clay
I can fly helicopters... Upside down!

Offline Robert "Full" Montee

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 12:50:01 PM »
I do fly and compete in the AMA classes that feed into F3C.
I would say the similarities are less about the Heli setup/equipment and more about the preparation for competition.
When you are measuring yourself to attain a top speed or perfect a known set maneuver you need to find consistency and then gradually improve.
My F3C competition Heli is a super stretch E5. It runs 716mm blades. I run lower headspeeds so that I can use the 8 minutes alloted to me for the set maneuvers. My tail ratio is the 4.9:1 in this Heli.
I'm helping a friend with his E7Speed and while we run the same main blades the similarities pretty much end there. Tail authority if too high can actually rob speed and when running headspeeds that high you'll want to run the lower tail ratio. Expo is on you. How smooth can you fly at 100mph+ while at the end of the field turning the Heli around?
Robert "Full" Montee
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https://robertstechlib.blogspot.com

Offline cml001

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 05:04:20 PM »
Good info guys!
Clay
I can fly helicopters... Upside down!

Offline Gabriel Sandoval

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 08:46:47 PM »
I will be running for 2016 IRCHA

E7Speed Conversion
Scorpion 4530-610 Speed Edition motor
Scorpion Opto 160
Thunder Power 70c Magna 5000 12S
Rail 716 F3c
Rail 96
Servos JR 8717
Spartan VX1E Gyro
JR Control

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 06:13:45 PM by GabrielSandoval »
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Offline cml001

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 10:48:28 PM »
Awesome!
Clay
I can fly helicopters... Upside down!

Offline tenv8

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Re: Synergy Speed
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 10:01:40 AM »
Good day, I bought a speed conversion kit, but have not found the same installation manual. could eviar me? Thank you!