My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE

[eobie]

All valid questions. I'm running 696's. Will address the rest when I get home. Kevin is correct in what's going on. Issue is figuring out what combo of dampers and shims will fix this.

[Kevin Feil]

What has happened in General, is you have taken a Semi Rigid Head, and in stacking the shims compressed the dampeners allow the shims to recess in the head block and in turn made it a (Rigid Head) you have taken the functionality of the head out. There needs to be some flexibility in the Spindle and have the opportunity to move based on loads imposed on the blades.. Does this make sense.? From my end it can totally happen. Bottom line with your flying style and the above mentioned example, you will continue to bend shafts until you Balance out the Dampening set up on your head. Now I suggest you look into the Dampening System FBL Rotors has. This gives you the ability to "Tune" your head to your flying style. However keep in mind you may also need to dial back a little on your flying style . I would seriously look into that system that Ralph has to offer... Keep us posted, I still would like to see a side picture of the spindle (on a flat surface) to give us an idea where the bend or bends are taking place.



K

[eobie]

Just so you know I've done this with stock shims and also with additional. The head is still doing its job, as evidenced by the divot in the head, the shaft is see sawing.

I need to get the damper shim from compressing into the head. Will update with more pictures later.

[Kevin Feil]

Trust me , I know the head is doing its job.. The compression of the dampener accompanied with your flying style, isn't allowing the (Head assembly) to work as designed. And the spindle is supposed to move some ("Semi" Rigid Head) and I think Rob Cherry Cola is on to something regarding set-up as well, he needs just as much information on the (Set-up side of the house) as well as what I'm looking for on the mechanical side.. we jus Gotta find that Balance between the two, and we will...


BR,

K

[eobie]

I gotcha. I will get you some pics soon. Gotta see what the wife is doing before I disappear in the basement, lol.

As far as changing my flying style, I don't think that is a solution that any manufacturer would advocate. If a solution is found it could be implemented in the future to further bulletproof the line.

[Kevin Feil]

Unfortunately, with the likes of Matt Botos (Owner/Designer) our own Rob Cherry whom can flat out maul (put to the test)a helicopter, Kyle Dahl and Nick Maxwell, Marcus Kim just to name a few who have absolutely beat the Synergy E7se, N7 and not ever do what you have done, I personally don't think that it's a product issue. I have never heard of this happening with a synergy much less the other Manufactors as stated earlier. I think it's a combination of Flying Style and Setup. How ever we are still awaiting all the facts in order to effectively and most importantly accurately diagnose the cause of the issues your having. and please forgive me if I sound like I'm dismissing the Synergy product, I'm not by any stretch implying that. I just have to go with the  overall number of times this has happened, a this is the first of such out of thousands of synergy sold and are in service. We are all here to help figure this out.

K

[eobie]

I'm not sure how I could setup this Heli wrong.. My N7 does not do this, however I can take my N7 head and throw it on my E7 and replicate the issue. This shows me that the forces being applied to the head in the heavier, more powerful E7 is too much for the head to handle in its stock setup.

I have spent probably $150 in spindles and dampers trying to resolve this.

I'm working with Ralph trying different things out. As far as more facts, what else do you need to know? I have 30+ emails between Matt an I. We know what is happening... We are just all trying to figure out how to fix it.

[Matt Botos]

Ed,

I am still not certain what is wrong with your setup that could be causing the bending. I've seen more aggressive flying and never any axle bending. The head axle has been in production since 2006 without a single incident of bending. I will continue to try to do my best to help.

Edit - remove video... sorry didnt read above
Thanks,

Matt

[eobie]

I posted that video a page back or so... It's the power loops Matt. Dunno what else to say.. If what Ralph and I are talking about doesn't work then I'm lost...

Never had this issue with a heli before. Had other issues of course, just nothing like this where the fix wasnt so obvious. Very, very, very frustrated. Ehh.


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[eobie]

KDE 700xf 535 G3
Kontronik 200hv
Kontronik gov, p gain @ 8, auto timing.



Same issue when I had the scorpion 4530-540 in there.


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[Matt Botos]

I gotta say it's even more frustrating from a manufacturers stand point as I have tens of thousands of customers since 2006 and never a single issue like this. This has to be an isolated incident based on how you are or are not configuring your helicopter. Sorry I don't have a better answer, maybe Piro Pete can pick your setup apart when you meet up with him.

Thanks,

Matt

[eobie]

Just so you know why I've tried as far as damping...

Stock setup, stock dampers, 1mm shim at dampers, .5mm between thrust and radial....bent shaft, cut damper

Same as above but with 1.5mm at the damper, bent shaft cut damper.

Trueblood with stock damping, bent shaft cut damper.

The ONLY setup that hasn't bent a shaft was truebloods with 1.5mm at the damper...but the damping is so tight I get shakes at 2100.


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[eobie]

Looked in a different thread you had and saw that Alan mentioned the gov gain.  Did you try that out, as well the other things listed like I and P gains maybe even motor timing?  Also saw you are running the 4530 motor, but the esc set up would help everyone solve your issue.  I'm merely asking these questions to help everyone help you, we want you to keep flying it a lot!

Check post right before matts.. I listed it all for you. It's not the kontronik gov.... That I can promise.


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[eobie]

I gotta say it's even more frustrating from a manufacturers stand point as I have tens of thousands of customers since 2006 and never a single issue like this. This has to be an isolated incident based on how you are or are not configuring your helicopter. Sorry I don't have a better answer, maybe Piro Pete can pick your setup apart when you meet up with him.

Thanks,

Matt

I hope he finds it. We were going to meet up the other day but just figured we will get together at helis over Delaware.


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[Matt Botos]

You are compressing the dampers too much which is driving the shim into the head. The shim then bottoms out on the ID of the head block and potentially bends the spindle. This is the only theory that fits your symptoms.

Trueblood dampers by design, are not supposed to be compressed. Not sure why you would need to compress an already ultra stiff damper.

The stock dampers work for 99.9% of the pilots out there. If you fall into that small percentage of pilots that the stock dampers do not work for there are solutions such as Trueblood, FBL Rotors, or modifying the stock dampers. I offered a free and simple option using the stock dampers.... this modification compresses the damper on the outer diameter vs compressing using shims. Simply wrap the damper in 1 or 2 layers of packing tape and reinsert the damper. Try this with the stock 1mm shim and let us know.

Thanks,

Matt