Bad day for my N5....

[Carzan]

Turns out a Magnet was missing from the clutch bell and as I discovered,  without warning would jump to idle and stay a bit before going back to full speed.

I don't mean to seem antagonistic here but this may not be the problem with your engine. The reason I say this is if you are missing the magnet your gov is sensing, ( remember there are two magnets set to opposite polarity) then your governor would not engage in the first place. Your engine would simply be running off of the curves you have set up in your radio. Now if the magnet came off during that flight, then again the governor would simply quit controlling the throttle ant your curves would once again be in control of your throttle. Since your Governor won't activate until approx 40% throttle your engine should not go to idle no matter what happens with those pesky little magnets.

You should check your curves to make sure they are good curves and you can fly your helicopter on them. There is nothing wrong with flying on curves. In fact I would suggest that until you have plenty of experience with Nitro and tuning your motor that you remain on curves and just leave the gov disabled.

As for the engine going back to an idle in flight, again I would look to whats actually controlling the throttle. Make absolutely sure there are no weird mixes enabled in your radio. Make certain the curves you have set for throttle are good. Keep the governor out of the mix and go fly. If you don't have to change any curves or disable any mixes and the helicopter performs with the governor off (which it did for 6 flights if the magnet was missing the entire time) then you know you have a solid engine and solid curves. Then you can look to the governor for issues.

I highly suggest you learn about throttle curves. You can manage your head speed with them very simply. And you should ALWAYS have a good throttle curve behind any governor.

If you need help with throttle curves let me know and I will provide you with some links to more detailed info.

I hope this helps!

[CRFan1]

Thanks...excellent info and that is a good point!  As an FYI I know both magnets were installed when I got the heli from my friend (all he flies are Synergy Helis) and probably were in there for the "good" flights

As far as tuning the motor believe me, I have been flying Nitro, Electric and Gasser planes for quite some time and consider myself a good "tuner".  The nitro engines I own never dead stick

That being said, I will be checking the throttle curves (I am familiar with them but not an expert by any means) and taking the Gov out of the mix to make sure and eliminate that.  I would appreciate you pointing me in the right direction for some good curves for the N5.....thanks.

[Carzan]

Great! Then once you get the governor out of the mix you have most of it whipped! The curves are simple really! And I forgot one thing, Always tune your engine with the governor disabled. The governor will mask tuning issues so always just disable it when you are going to check your tuning.


Jay

[CRFan1]

Great! Then once you get the governor out of the mix you have most of it whipped! The curves are simple really! And I forgot one thing, Always tune your engine with the governor disabled. The governor will mask tuning issues so always just disable it when you are going to check your tuning.


Jay

Thanks...that makes sense regarding the tuning.  Look forward to getting the throttle curve info. from you 

[Carzan]

Here is some basic instruction written by Michael Pruitt.
http://www.raptortechnique.com/throttlecurve.htm

Here is some info on Throttle to cyclic mixing
http://www.raptortechnique.com/throttlemix.htm


Michael wrote this stuff many years ago. The basics haven't changed and for your helicopter to perform well it must be set up properly no matter what electronics you have on it. This site I am referring you to has some stuff that is so basic that it is for a beginner to all parts of the hobby. So you will just have to skim some of the sections to get past that stuff and get to the things that you may need information about. Here is a link to the page on his site with drop downs that will take you to many areas with detailed information about those items.
http://www.raptortechnique.com/index-raptor.html

That happens to be on the raptor but he has those types of pages for many helicopters. Michael doesn't fly much anymore but he made a large contribution to the hobby with this website.

I hope a simple programming change can indeed fix whatever issue there is with that engine for you! I have run several OS55 HZ motors and all have been solid. The only other thing I can think of would be if it were the regulated motor maybe there is something going on with that regulation system. I have heard from time to time of some pilots complaining about the regulators on OS engines.

[CRFan1]

Thanks again...I honestly do not think its the engine per se.  Something else is going on and I will figure it out.  I am even going to change the supply lines inside and outside of the tank.

[Carzan]

I just noticed I only need one more post to get rid of the pink! So here it is!

Let us know what you find on the issue. I am particularly interested as I have been on a four year vacation from RC. Kind of exciting to be back in the mix so to speak! Have a Great Day!

[Mike Spano]

yea, you need curves with any IC motor. I tune with my Gov one though, I have tuned with it off and really didn't see any benefit. guys do things differently, as long as the end result is the same, that's all that matters.

you do have a "V" curve setup in your radio in IU1 and IU2, right? meaning curve looks similar to this - 100, 80, 70, 80, 100......that is a example though, the numbers mean nothing, just representation. sounds like when you go inverted and you give negative collective/throttle your going to an idle instead of back up in the rpm range.

I just recently started flying nitro, but been flying gassers for a long time. gasser curves are much harder to get since they don't have a liner throttle like a nitro. but your normal curve will start with your idle %, once you get in  hover, you flip into IU1 which is a v curve, as your IU2 is too.

[chips303]

Use transparent fuel lines and watch for bubbles.

My $0.02

[CRFan1]

Thanks guys I will check it all out and keep you updated of results though it may be a week or two....

Chips, you ARE going to help me figure this out, lol 

[chips303]

Nope, gona watch and learn.  LOL not

I hung with Gasser Mike ar IRCHA a few times. He's one cool cat. 

I need more info on cyclic mixing to throttle....

[CRFan1]

yea, you need curves with any IC motor. I tune with my Gov one though, I have tuned with it off and really didn't see any benefit. guys do things differently, as long as the end result is the same, that's all that matters.

you do have a "V" curve setup in your radio in IU1 and IU2, right? meaning curve looks similar to this - 100, 80, 70, 80, 100......that is a example though, the numbers mean nothing, just representation. sounds like when you go inverted and you give negative collective/throttle your going to an idle instead of back up in the rpm range.

I just recently started flying nitro, but been flying gassers for a long time. gasser curves are much harder to get since they don't have a liner throttle like a nitro. but your normal curve will start with your idle %, once you get in  hover, you flip into IU1 which is a v curve, as your IU2 is too.

So I am flying an Ikon and this is what I am going to do so I can test.  I set up throttle curves as a start in Normal (11, 25,50,75,100) and flight mode 1 (100, 75, 60,75,100).  Flight mode 2 is a straight 60% (although admittedly the directions in the Ikon are a bit confusing) across the board as that is what Ikon recommends for Gov use......Or should I still have a curve for Gov use?  Ikon also allows 3 modes on a switch, 1 and 2 have no Gov and 3 does.  So in essence i can flip to the 3rd flight mode and go to up 2 and be on the Gov.

If I am off base here someone please chime in

[Mike Spano]

ok, so not very farmilar with the ikon gov but I just read through the wizard instructions, and i see where they want the flat line curve. that makes things a little different. if you lose your gov pickup (magnet), and it cannot see how fast the motor is spinning, it will default back to the flat line throttle curve. i don't really like this idea, but its what ikon recommends, so i don't know what to tell you, sorry....  i am more accustomed to setting my curves where i want them, then just turning the gov on for added help, if i lose my magnet, it falls on the curve i have set and flys just fine....

i really wish i had more experience with the ikon gov.....maybe chris sexton can chime in here and help you more with that part of it. sorry i couldn't be of more help here, but we are out of my realm with the ikon gov...

[Mike Spano]

Nope, gona watch and learn.  LOL not

I hung with Gasser Mike ar IRCHA a few times. He's one cool cat. 

I need more info on cyclic mixing to throttle....

thank you sir! i had so much fun meeting everyone at IRCHA! i got to meet a ton of guys i have been talking to on the forum here for a long time. really a lot of fun! the whole week i felt like a kid at Christmas!

as far as cyclic/throttle mixing, it really depends on the radio. but its very simple. you setup a mix in your TX to progressively apply throttle as you progressively apply cyclic input. you will have to play with exactly how much % it adds and where though, as throttle linkage geometry plays a part in this. it may very well be the same %  with an all N7's, i don't know, i am used to doing this on gasser conversions, where they are all different and the layout is never the same. basically custom throttle setups....

[CRFan1]

ok, so not very farmilar with the ikon gov but I just read through the wizard instructions, and i see where they want the flat line curve. that makes things a little different. if you lose your gov pickup (magnet), and it cannot see how fast the motor is spinning, it will default back to the flat line throttle curve. i don't really like this idea, but its what ikon recommends, so i don't know what to tell you, sorry....  i am more accustomed to setting my curves where i want them, then just turning the gov on for added help, if i lose my magnet, it falls on the curve i have set and flys just fine....

i really wish i had more experience with the ikon gov.....maybe chris sexton can chime in here and help you more with that part of it. sorry i couldn't be of more help here, but we are out of my realm with the ikon gov...

Hey thanks...Because I am a relative beginner it is probably better I fly on a throttle curve anyway for now, to eliminate any other complexity.  Its not like I am doing hard core 3D so a curve should do me just fine.  Once I replace the magnets I can test it out and Maybe go back to it but if I like how it flies on the curve I will just let it rip.      I fly my old (C)Raptor on a curve just fine, lolol.