Esc dilemma! Fixed endpoints or Governor mode?

[Dogman]

Always ran fixed endpoints in my 180,450,360, and 550, and had no power drop issues, or motor lag, very happy with the performance of fixed endpoints. Just finished repairing my E7SE the other week, and did the maiden voyage the other day with fixed endpoints, and posted on another thread that it rocked, and was very happy with the performance. Decided to listen to people posting about using governor mode, so I programmed the esc to governor mode, and set all the parameters around that setting. OMG! It flew like a powered piece of dog doo doo. The motor was "burping" and when it would burp, the tail would kick out about 6". Cyclic response was affected, and I could hear the motor changing timing slightly up and down trying to find that sweet spot. Needless to say I landed quickly and now am scratching my head. Is governor mode that much better then fixed endpoints? What am I doing wrong where I am not seeing the benefit of running the governor mode?

[curmudgeon]

Fixed endpoints work fine.  Fixed endpoints do not require rely on technological sophistication like governors do.  Fixed endpoints do not require tuning.  Fixed endpoints yield very consistent moment to moment head speed.  However, fixed endpoints have a significant limitation.  As the LiPo voltage drops, so does the head speed.

Tell us a little more about your governor setup.

[Dogman]

Using governor mode seems it would drain the battery much quicker then fixed endpoints by trying to maintain a specific speed. It seems to me that when the battery starts to drop, instead of just giving 90% of what is available, it will try to give more and more power to maintain that high head speed. Maybe I'm not draining my packs enough in fixed mode, but I do not notice a drop(maybe very very slight) and I bring them to about 3.8V per cell. Then again I'm not doing Tereq Alsaadi 3D. Which way will give you the most flight time? I'm not worried about performance right now, flight time is more important to me right now.

[Richard Rollins]

Can you tell us what ESC your using? Also what Fbl unit?  Although fixed end points work fine I run my Castle Creations gov and it works great but again it's a matter of preference. I run a CC160 hv.

[Dogman]

I'm running CC Phoenix Ice2 160 HV, AR7210 BeastX, Scorpion HK3 4035 500KV motor, BK DS7002 cyclics, MKS HBL990 tail. I physically counted the teeth on gears to enter the proper info into the ESC. Looked up magnetic pole count, etc. all that was entered correctly to my knowledge. Teach me your ways jedi master!

[curmudgeon]

I'm running CC Phoenix Ice2 160 HV, Ar7210 BeastX...

The Castle Phoenix ICE2 HV line of ESCs are known to be generally good and reliable (again ICE2), but the governor performance has not caught up to the competition.  The adequacy of the Castle governor may depend on your collective management skills and how aggressively you fly.  There are parameters you can tweak to optimize the governor performance (governor gain, motor timing, PWM, lower collective range, etc.), but there is only so much you can optimize.  A relatively economic way to improve governor performance with the equipment you have is to install a $4.50 HobbyWing RPM sensor and connect it to the AR7210BX so you can use the AR7210BX governor.  You may have to purchase the BeastX Pro firmware to unlock the governor function though.

[Dogman]

Is it that noticeable? I'm thinking I'm not draining my packs far enough to notice the rpm drop? What voltage do you guys bring your flight packs down to? I'm going down to 3.8 across the board.

[Robert "Full" Montee]

Dogman,
On fixed endpoints and the throttle set to 90% you are likely starting the flight around 2300RPM. There is a large difference in how the heli will feel from 2300 to 1950.
This assumes you are running a 12t motor pinion.
The castle gov set to "Set RPM" will likely govern a max headspeed around 1980 RPM.
This is likely lower than your lowest RPM on fixed endpoints at the end of the flight.
Save and share your full configuration from CastleLink please.
Regards,
Robert

[Dogman]

Here is my setup info. The head speed I picked was the maxed I could enter without it turning yellow or red and saying it can not govern that head speed. I physically counted the motor pinion, and the main gear has the tooth count stamped on it. I looked up the motor to get the 10 pole count. Thanks for looking and helping. So I guess I am not bringing my flight packs down low enough to notice a drop in head speed if you are saying it drops that much from the beginning to the end of a flight. I guess I should be bringing the flight packs to around 3.4v or 3.5v instead of 3.8v where I bring them to.

[Robert "Full" Montee]

Voltage has too high of a variable to be a sole measure.
For example my flying style coupled with a mAh telemetry, my batteries have a resting voltage of 3.7 - 3.75 volts per cell minutes after flight completion.
The mAh alarm alerts at 3400 mAh.
A battery checker shows I have between 20 - 30 percent remaining.

Short question to what is written above, how many mAh are your chargers putting back into the batteries and how long was the flight for your fixed endpoints setup.

[Dogman]

Ill pay attention to what goes in next time I fly the E7. When I fly my 550, it uses one of the same batteries that I run in the E7, and at 3.79v-3.80v it usually puts back in about 3200mah. So, by running the same battery in the E7 but 2 of them, I figured when I brought them down to the same 3.79v-3.8v it would be putting the same back in, but to be sure I will check.

[quantummodz]

Step back a bit, fixed end points are simple to setup but in flight as you progress are in efficient and they waste more lipo than governor
Governor needs few extra steps like gear ratio. It is always best to leave headroom meaning 20% less than max head speed
The governor will track the - + demands more accurately and will gradually decay.
Head speed is more a few factors
Pinion and motor define headspeed and the lipo needs to have enough total amps to run the kit
The pitch curve goes hand in hand with rpm to get the best pop or reaction ( no bog ) you have to set up the right blend
A Heli with 13 pitch can have less pop than a heli at 11. Due to the headroom
As we all do fly as you want
I try to make the Heli react as my brain and finger expect it to roll rate speed pitch
Main thing is have fun.

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