KDE 700XF and YGE 160

[Chris Wall]

I posted this on HF also, but thought I would ask here also.  Anyone using this combo? I have a Edge 160 with it now and the vbar governor is not getting a consistent rpm reading from the Edge and I am very tired of messing with it! Castle is working with me, but tired of not being able to fly the Heli with confidence...

[Jon Mills]

I'm also using the castle 160.  I am using the castle gov with total success.

[Chris Wall]

Yes, the Castle governor works fine, but I prefer the vbar governor, and out of 4 Edge 160s, this one on the E7se keeps giving me all these governor glitch errors in the vbar log...

[Jon Mills]

Is this the newest Edge Edition controller with the extra rpm output.  If its not the newest one I was told you can send it to castle for a upgrade at a reduced cost.  That's all I can think of hopefully someone else on the forum will step in here.  I think you may want to send it back anyway for some warranty work if its giving you problems. Sorry I can not be more helpful.

[Chris Wall]

Yes, all the Edge ESCs have the extra wire that can be configured for several functions (the Ice2 units were the old ones).

[Jon Mills]

OK I understand.  I see in your signature that you have two of the exact same birds.  Do you have problems with both? If yes then could you possibly give me the symptoms?  I think we could figure this out together with a little research.  Also it will be helpful if I could get your castle and vbar settings. Thanks in advance.

Jon M

[Chris Wall]

Yes, that would make it easier!  One works fine, the other is problematic...  Castle has suggested rerouting the signal wires, resetting the vbar and reconfiguring from scratch.  Others have suggested testing another motor.  And I have heard from several resellers that this is an issue that many are having with the new Edge ESCs and vbar...

So far I have rerouted the wires and reset the Edge several times.  I have several other 160s I could try, and I guess I could swap a 800MX from a 700DFC for testing.  I just am tired of jacking with it!  If I have to start swapping all these components out I would just as soon get a new ESC and/or motor (although I do really love the KDE motors).  This motor has been back to KDE after a crash and it tested out good.  I have heard on the KDE forums that a YGE is not a good match for their motors.  It might be time to try a Scorpion 4525 Ultimate that all the Synergy folks love!

[Jon Mills]

I have been thinking about this a whole lot. I think almost certainly its the controller. I have not once had a gov issue with mine, it works flawless. The only thing the motor could do is not work really, either it works or it doesn't.  Try swapping the cc controllers if you do have two of them. Preferably the one on your other setup. It isn't likely the vbar because you are having trouble with the controller gov and the vbar gov. If it was the vbar the castle gov would work. 

[Chris Wall]

I have been thinking about this a whole lot. I think almost certainly its the controller. I have not once had a gov issue with mine, it works flawless. The only thing the motor could do is not work really, either it works or it doesn't.  Try swapping the cc controllers if you do have two of them. Preferably the one on your other setup. It isn't likely the vbar because you are having trouble with the controller gov and the vbar gov. If it was the vbar the castle gov would work.

So, interesting thing, I spoke with both Castle and KDE today.  It seems that the white RPM sensor wire is extremely sensitive to interference from basically anything.  Clint with Castle suggested that even my re-routing of the wire needed to be fine tuned a little.  It seemed like on his two E7s getting rid of the glitches in the vbar was not a simple task.  KDE noticed the same thing with the white wire and some of their pilots gave up on the internal Edge sensor and went back to the Hobby Wing sensor!  What it seems to come down to is if a servo extension is added to that wire it becomes an issue.  I actually have a satellite pretty close to it in the re-route (the logs have a bunch of antenna switching, so they might be stepping on each other), so I'll move the satellite and test again.  If that fails, then change out ESCs...

Also, it was suggested to use wire braid to cover the wire and add a little more around it...

Thanks for hanging in there with me!

[Jon Mills]

Ahh that is interesting if you want a couple of good reads on that sort of thing here is two excellent links.  I think you are defiantly on to something with the insulation.  I would suggest also wrapping the sensor wire length with aluminum foil possibly a double wrap closest to the motor esc and esc wires then putting the braid over that.  If its EMF your trying to keep out that will help tremendously. On every piston driven airplane I have ever worked on the spark plug wires are all wrapped with aluminum insulation to ground the noise produced by the ignition circuit.  That being the case if the above doesn't seem to quite do it maybe wrapping the source is whats needed.

This is a must read.  This absolutely pertains to what Castle is describing.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CFkQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aip.org%2Ftip%2FINPHFA%2Fvol-1%2Fiss-2%2Fp29.pdf&ei=J7B4UpzhE-nV2QWo2YC4Bw&usg=AFQjCNFCoF389u0g3LwBHMRld3sBmMJ2-g&sig2=Yb0fOo9Na58x1P4tPia67A

[Jean-Luc Bolduc]

have you tried a ferrite ring ?
it helps to reduce or eliminate errors
in vbar logs.

[Chris Wall]

have you tried a ferrite ring ?
it helps to reduce or eliminate errors
in vbar logs.

Patrick at KDE recommended trying that.  Unfortunately I can only test on the weekend, so I have several things to test Saturday!

[Chris Wall]

Maybe I should have said an extra ferrite ring, as it already has one near the ESC from the factory...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jean-Luc Bolduc]

A ferrite ring on the sensor wire near the vbar main unit.

[Chris Wall]

Just to finish this thread off, I spent many flights testing out things that Castle recommended me to try and do on the Edge 160HV signal wire to clear up the glitches.  It got better, then it got worse, then better again, but never completely disappeared.  Last Sunday I got a little frustrated at one E7se flying great and the other giving me problems, so I pulled the Edge off and put an older ICE2 120 HV with a Hobbywing phase sensor on it and low and behold it worked like a champ!  I was finally able to get the power and performance out of the 700XF motor I expected.  Tried my best to overload the 120, but maxed out at 103.5 Amp draw.  I'll have to say running the smaller ESC and a very light pack (Thor 3700 12S stick pack) you really can tell a difference with a few 100 grams...

I spoke with Castle on Monday and they RMAed the ESC.  Shipped to me with a return label no less, still a loyal Castle customer!  Can't say enough about Clint and his support, weekend calls, night calls, no matter he tried to figure it out with me.

I also spoke with KDE support and found out that the YGE controllers firmware really doesn't support an eight pole motor well, so probably not a good idea to even try that combination (good thing I asked - those are pricy)!

Thanks for all the help!