November 22, 2024, 11:48:54 PM

Author Topic: Tail wag in Vbar  (Read 9630 times)

Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 01:29:40 PM »
Its not going to govern in fixed-end point mode.

Try 14T @ 2150-2250 and 18% gain

when you say 18% gain, i thought i wasn't using a gov for the tail set up
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Offline Scott Anderson

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 01:49:03 PM »
Oh ok so when you get your tail set up and go back to governing mode try 18% gov gain to prevent the motor from pulsating and creating a tail wag.

My vbar tail gain is 80 on the slider yaw rate 104 , 5 deadband , 80P gain, 60i gain, 25 stop gain A & B , optimize on , tq precomp 15 coll, 10 cyc, 0 zero coll. 55% expo

You can try using this numbers as a starting point
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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 04:25:00 PM »
Oh ok so when you get your tail set up and go back to governing mode try 18% gov gain to prevent the motor from pulsating and creating a tail wag.

My vbar tail gain is 80 on the slider yaw rate 104 , 5 deadband , 80P gain, 60i gain, 25 stop gain A & B , optimize on , tq precomp 15 coll, 10 cyc, 0 zero coll. 55% expo

You can try using this numbers as a starting point

I tried these exact settings, went down to 75P and 40I and still wag :/
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Offline Scott Anderson

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 04:51:45 PM »
OK now go back and check the sensor for excessive amount of play in the tape and make sure the lead isn't pulled tight. Might want to re check the ball links for proper sizing and also go into Vbar to see if you have the pulse width for your servo selected. Check the servo for excessive heat and play in the gear train. Also check the meassurent from center spine to center of ball.

Check the speed & torque of the servo may not be adequate.

Forgot to say check the tail rotor grips, hub and bearings & gearbox for any loose bolts etc
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 05:06:06 PM by andersons »
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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2014, 10:41:15 AM »
OK now go back and check the sensor for excessive amount of play in the tape and make sure the lead isn't pulled tight. Might want to re check the ball links for proper sizing and also go into Vbar to see if you have the pulse width for your servo selected. Check the servo for excessive heat and play in the gear train. Also check the meassurent from center spine to center of ball.

Check the speed & torque of the servo may not be adequate.

Forgot to say check the tail rotor grips, hub and bearings & gearbox for any loose bolts etc

Sensor was good.
Ball links sized today when boto sizer comes in! one was VERY tight on the servo horn, maybe this was the problem?
I re lubed the tail thrust bearings, they were 100% dry ( purchased this heli lightly used )

I did notice the tail slider won't "fall" by any means if i put it sideways like it does on my trex 450, so is it too tight or is there binding?
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Offline Scott Anderson

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2014, 11:09:29 AM »
The ball links are most likely is the main issue, check the sizing on the slider ends. I haven't tried to let the slider fall with gravity, Its possible that it was lubed up and not cleaned , probably sticky. Use denatured alcohol and give it a good bath. Also the bellcrank has bearings in it and on top of the upper bearing it has a small M3 shim , make sure its installed. Loctite is not required on the bellcrank bolt it uses a nylock self locking nut , I've seen people use loctite on it and when it drys it binds up.

Looks like are headed in the right direction of solving the problems don't give up on it , once its right you're not going to be disappointed!
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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2014, 11:31:51 AM »
The ball links are most likely is the main issue, check the sizing on the slider ends. I haven't tried to let the slider fall with gravity, Its possible that it was lubed up and not cleaned , probably sticky. Use denatured alcohol and give it a good bath. Also the bellcrank has bearings in it and on top of the upper bearing it has a small M3 shim , make sure its installed. Loctite is not required on the bellcrank bolt it uses a nylock self locking nut , I've seen people use loctite on it and when it drys it binds up.

Looks like are headed in the right direction of solving the problems don't give up on it , once its right you're not going to be disappointed!

Just cleaned it up with alcohol and re-lubed with some bearing oil, may apply white silicone if that is better.

Bell crank is very smooth, it swings around by itself.

only thing is it feels there is a "SMALL " amount of friction on the tail slider....?

this heli has never been crashed and lightly used.

but Chris Sexton as i quote, " The tail pitch slider on these doesn't require disassembly. Unlike most kits that have a brass bushing screwed into an aluminum hub that needs loctite, the synergy kit is held in with a lock washer like clip.

As for the play, there will be in and out play, that is there by design. When the tail spins up it will be fine. Make sure you don't have side to side play.
"
on HF. so i'm guessing this is normal.

my ball link on the servo honestly was VERY tight, it took effort for me to move it around, and it made a noise because it was so tight. Honestly most likely the issue, but the slider concerns me too

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Offline Chris Sexton

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2014, 12:08:05 PM »
Yes the in and out play in the grips is normal dont try and shim it out.

The friction is most likely the links needing sized. 

You can also try using a real fine sand paper and buffing the output shaft around that point. But I will be surprised if the problem isn't resolved by sizing the links.

sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 2

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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 01:35:10 PM »
Yes the in and out play in the grips is normal dont try and shim it out.

The friction is most likely the links needing sized. 

You can also try using a real fine sand paper and buffing the output shaft around that point. But I will be surprised if the problem isn't resolved by sizing the links.

sent from my Verizon Samsung Galaxy Note 2

Thanks!
Gaui X3 and Synergy E5
Vbar all around
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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2014, 10:12:30 AM »
Still can't shake this wag.


It is actually much faster and violent, so i turned the gain down and it's slow again. theres no inbetween that i need to find!
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Offline trhammonds

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2014, 01:56:44 PM »
Tek what servo and how old is it?

Samsung Note III

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Offline Scott Anderson

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2014, 02:45:57 PM »
Dang I was hoping you had it fixed
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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2014, 04:28:29 PM »
Tek what servo and how old is it?

Samsung Note III

It is a Savox SB-2272

I stripped down everything,  by everything I mean EVERYTHING today.

Tail slider feels great, ball links have a VERY small amount of play on the slider but boto sizer will be here tomorrow.

The servo is where the binding is coming from, the servo ( with just the horn on it ) will get caught and make an odd noise when it is moved quickly, if it is moved slowly it does not.

I could not tell you how old the servo is, i purchased this heli used. the heli does not have very many flights on it though!
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Offline trhammonds

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2014, 04:39:47 PM »
Sounds like the servo is worn out... If you have a spare servo to test I would go that route.... Also insure that the heat shrink on the tail rod is not binding the movement as well...

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Offline tek18x

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Re: Tail wag in Vbar
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2014, 04:40:16 PM »
Videos.

Note the mechanical set up is 100% clean, works GREAT.


Synergy e5 tail problem (video 1)

Synergy e5 tail wag problem (video 2)
Gaui X3 and Synergy E5
Vbar all around
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