cgy 750 tail tuning help

[anthony]

haven't been flying my E5 lately (cgy equipped) work etc. but I have been flying my ikon equipped logo480, and while the tail isn't perfect its a lot better than the cgy , I know it tuning but I don't know exactly what maneuvers to do to tune the tail . apart from that I really like the way the cgy flies , much more pure (only way I can think of describing it) so I would like to try and solve my tail issue.
its the same as its always been , in tik toks the tail appears to be doing figure eights, mild pitch pumps are ok but if I blip the collective the tail swings about 5 degrees before coming back on line . I tried ff and negative numbers make it better . any advice on this problem will be appreciated
thank you
Anthony

[anthony]

so I went through the nick Maxwell video's again , and this time I noticed that ff has 2 parameters a high and a low one, when I look at the tail whilst playing with the collective its very erratic mainly because I only have on side (high) set i'm hoping that this is my problem , I have set it so that as I move from positive to negative collective the tail moves to the left and vice versa , it looks smooth whereas it was jerky before so I know I will have to tune it while flying to get it correct but it looks promising , hopefully tomorrow I can get out and test my theory.
Anthony

[anthony]

so I flew this morning and adjusted the ff on the rudder to get rid of the kick, I started with +- 30 . still a kick so I went to +- 20 and it got worse , so I went all the way (in increments) to +70 and -50 which feels wrong but its the best its been so far, now i'm thinking of reducing the ff and adding some acc to try and get the initial kick which is small out , I noticed that as I near the end of the flight the tail swings a little , but only with the older batteries ,
am I on the right track? for me this is all guess work
Anthony

[anthony]

I copied my posts from another forum as there were plenty of views but no help , hopefully someone here will be able to tell me if what i'm doing is correct or give me a different direction to try . I know its all down to tuning but that's something that i'm not good at , I don't have the experience
Anthony

[Robert "Full" Montee]

I have seen your post in HeliFreak.
I'm still finishing up my writing for tail tuning and the use of F/F. Rate and ACC.Gain.
Your numbers for F/F.Rate are much greater than I would expect.
I would suggest setting F/F.Rate back to default of 0 for both L and H and also default for ACC.Gain.

Next tune the main gain for the tail.
Fast forward flight, fast backwards flight, fast sideways flight (tail in right to left), tail in clockwise loops and hurricanes can all be used to complete this tuning.
Complete whichever maneuvers you are capable of at this time.
You want the gain as high as it will go without fast wags.
If you are suffering from tail blow out during these tests, I would suggest, review of your rudder linkage, tail rotor size, tail gear ratio, and tail servo.

[anthony]

I have done all that already , but I will do as you suggest just to see if it helps

[anthony]

i reset ff to 0 both sides acc was at 0 already , tail gain is at 62 . right now when i move the collective up and down the tail doesn't compensate at all , also , i did set the tail in rate mode  and i can fly everything that you described for tuning and 62 is it . will probably have to wait till the weekend to test but I'm not at all confident that it will help. thanks again
Anthony

[anthony]

so i had a chance to fly this morning and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but the tail isn't right, I flew as fast a tail down funnel as I could , tail towards me sideways loops fast backward and hurricanes and the tail held, went up with the gain which was only 3 points and got wag in certain maneuvers so I backed it back down to 62% . left piro's the stops are crisp right piro's there is a little bounce, fff while piroing is whippy( not consistent)
tik toks and flips are awful , it looks like i'm doing a Jamie Robertson with the tail its moving side to side during the maneuver . obviously on a smaller scale but that's what it looks like to me , so where do I go from here?
I did recheck in rate mode and I need to adjust a little bit but other than that its good
Anthony

[anthony]

flew again today and went back with my original plan , less ff and some acc gain, it works better but not perfect , this is the best I can do as its all guesswork . how do I stop the tail bounce on stops .left piros are sharp right piros there is a bounce?
Anthony

[Robert "Full" Montee]

See page 22 of the CGY750 V2 manual.
You want CNT.Dout (Control delay Out)
Higher values equal softer stop. Smaller values equal harder stop.
It does have an A and B for individual Left and Right tail rotor commands.

[anthony]

I did try that parameter, and all that it did was either speed up or slow down the bounce , could it be that there is something mechanical not right , the tail mechanism is smooth the pushrod is straight but I am running align servo's , if so what do I look for?
Anthony

[Robert "Full" Montee]

Anthony,

What heli are you tuning this on?
Can you show me video of the items you are experiencing?
What Align servo are you running on the rudder?

Of course check your control linkages for both smoothness and play. To much play can result in undesired performance.

Thank you,

[anthony]

its a gaui x5, I did have the same issue on my E5 , which  is why I think its a tuning thing , haven't ruled out mechanical which i'm going to check over tonight , and for the most part it flies well , I will see if I can get my daughter to video some flips and stuff
Anthony

[Robert "Full" Montee]

Rudder servo make and model?
How much collective and cyclic pitch are you setup for?
What make, size of main and tail blades.
What is governing the head speed?
What motor is in the x5?

Thanks
Robert

[anthony]

rudder servo is the align ds650
cyclic = 13.5 degrees +-
collective  = 12 degrees +-
main blades are switch 523mm tail blades are stock gaui plastic 82mm(I think)
cgy gov and I fly at 2400 rpm
motor is a scorpion x5 there is no kv on the can but it does say ircha 2010 limited edition