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Author Topic: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE  (Read 10301 times)

Offline eobie

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My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« on: July 03, 2014, 10:55:31 AM »
I've made some posts recently regarding bent feathering shafts and feel that I owe an explanation as to what was going on. Not sure if anyone will really gain anything from this, because according to Matt, I am the only person to bend them in flight. :) I'm actually kinda proud of that!

So I was fighting some bobbles on the head. It took a while but I finally checked the feathering shaft and it was bent. I bent a couple of these but at the time always had a minor incident in which I attributed this to. Well I finally had another bend and this time it only had three flights on it... dampers only had three flights too.

Working with Matt, we realized that the standard damping was not sufficient for my flying style. The shims against the damper would cut into the damper and then slice the dampers up and down. This would then allow the shim to bottom out on the head which would then bend the shaft. Marks on the inside of the head tipped Matt off to what was going on.

It turns out Matt was 100% correct. I have since moved over to the trueblood dampers and added another .5mm of shimming to each side. In total my setup is now trueblood dampers, 1.5mm of shims on the damper side, and .5mm of shim between the radial and outer thrust bearing race.

The helicopter is very responsive now due to all the preloading so I took out ALL paddle sim on the vbar to slow it down around center. It flies awesome now. I beat the poo out of it and no more bent shafts.

Just want to say thank you to Matt for exchanging some 30+ emails to iron this all out and I also hope that this will help someone out there if you should ever have the same issue.

Offline Mike Spano

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2014, 11:47:15 AM »
that's crazy man! I wish I could bend a head axle in flight! haha must be some hard 3D your throwing down there bud!

glad you got it sorted out, i can see how this would be a hard one to figure out...
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Offline steffgiguere

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2014, 12:18:16 PM »
I'd love to see a vid of you flying.  I have over 1400 combined flights on my E5, E6, E7 and N7 and never bend a feathering shaft, not even during crashes...
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Offline eobie

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2014, 01:36:21 PM »
Hey guys. I'm not a smack pilot. I told Matt that. I fly 3d but not crazy smack stuff. I do fly hard though. I know exactly what maneuver was doing it. I like to do these crazy big fast inverted powerloops and do a massive punch out at the bottom. Its violent. I have several align reps in our club and when I was testing the new setup they were all yelling if I was trying to break the machine.... I was trying to break it, and I'm glad to say that after the new setup it held up like a champ...

Offline Mike Spano

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 02:44:26 PM »
I'd love to see a vid of you flying.  I have over 1400 combined flights on my E5, E6, E7 and N7 and never bend a feathering shaft, not even during crashes...

funny you mention the crash thing. I put my e5 in due to electrical failure this weekend, tail first I might add. and the gears in the tail box, and the feathering shaft were perfect! lol I felt sure the feathering shaft would be toast, but no.....
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Offline eobie

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2014, 10:34:05 AM »
I'm still working through this.... previous method did not end up working.

As for a video.. this is one I sent Matt. I was just doing a bunch off hard maneuvers then doing tic tocs to test for the bent shaft. It's the first place I notice it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09kVkFt6igg

and this is what the dampers looked like after the one flight.

https://plus.google.com/100786521036319734933/posts/2wcMXELAB4q

AND

here goes the truebloods..

https://plus.google.com/100786521036319734933/posts/iHLwz4JHu3f
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 10:52:16 AM by eobie »

Offline Mike Spano

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 02:51:37 PM »
And your sure your head is assembled properly?  All the shims and bearings seated properly? I have just never seen anything like that. Even with guys beating the total crap out of them.
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Offline eobie

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 02:53:18 PM »
Yes and yes. I've swapped heads with my n7 and still did. I've disassembled it enough times.......

Offline Rob Cherry

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 03:15:46 PM »
What is your collective range and do you have pitch pump enabled? If so, what value? Also, can you post a picture of the bent axle? I'm curious where the actual bend is located.

Thanks!

Rob
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 03:22:57 PM by Rob Cherry »
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Offline eobie

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 03:18:25 PM »
No pitch pump. No paddle Sim. +-13 on pitch.

Offline Rob Cherry

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 03:33:29 PM »
Thanks! How about agility setting and cyclic throw slider value to achieve 8 degrees, and is it measuring 8? Also, long balls on outside of swash, short balls on inside, correct? Information gathering. :)

Also, can you post a picture of the bent axle? I'm curious where the actual bend is located.

Rob!
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Offline eobie

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 03:47:48 PM »
Agility is at 110 or so. Style is in the 50's.  FBL turnbuckle kit.. Short balls inside. Long outside. Don't know what the cyclic number us as I'm not neat the Heli. It is smack middle of the acceptable range to get 8 degrees.

Picture of the spindle won't help you.. You won't see the bend. It bends at the shim next to the damper. You can see the mark the shim makes on the inside of the head.  See the attached picture.

Offline Rob Cherry

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 03:55:20 PM »
cool, thanks! Is there an equal and opposing mark on the other side of the head, on the top edge? I ask because there's a difference between the axle bending from the hit, or the axle bending first and then forcing the shim to hit after the damage because everything is now funky, bent and wobbling a lot.

Are both trueblood dampeners cut up equally or, is one cut up less than the other similar to the black ones? Again here, if the axle is first bent then the shim is more likely to cut the dampener on the bent side after the axle bends while flying it around knowing, or not knowing, it's bent.

Rob!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 04:16:27 PM by Rob Cherry »
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Offline Kevin Feil

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 03:56:59 PM »
No doubt your dampeners are compressed judging by the cuts, to the point the dampener ends up consuming the shim, kinda like when you put your head on your pillow. I assume your running 716's on your machine? Watching your video it's clear in theory why it's doing what it's doing, the real issue is figuring out if it's a setup issue or not to bash by any means, a build issue. Like Rob is asking very valid questions. For me I feel as if the dampeners are being compressed to much and infact allowing the spindle to bend, I have never seen this happen with one of the synergy machines and frankly with any other vendor. Picture a (seesaw), with the dampeners installed in theory normal, you don't have the ability to rock that spindle back and forth per say . But if you compress the dampeners even more. You have swelled them to the point, they are tight as he'll, results being the blade grips have no relief when you introduce the loads you are introducing to them. With that being said, going back to the seesaw theory, like Rob asked where are the bends and where are the "marks in the head block" in relation to those bends, my guess is they are bent to the left and right of center "probably a few MM's from the threaded end. The shim has in fact become the Fulcrum (keeping the Seesaw image in your head). Again this is speculation only, weather it's plausible or not that's up for discussion pending more information, including the questions Rob has asked..

BR,

K
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Offline Kevin Feil

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Re: My feathering shaft woes and my E7SE
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 04:00:54 PM »
I would venture to say Rob the Black ones are most likely worse off than TB's? TB's tend to be firmer.. Interesting post and look forward to the rest of this thread as it goes on.  ***** any possibility that you can take a side view picture of the spindle on a known "Flat Surface" this will also help in diagnosing this issue...


K
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